early morning/bedtime cycle:(

[xyzbear]

My 8 month old daughter keeps waking up at 5-5:30 every morning and then can't make it until 9am for her first nap which makes us so behind during the day - she ends up going to sleep at about 6pm which only reenforces the early start!
However if I try to stretch out her day she ends up overtired and her sleep gets very messed up:(
Does anyone have any ideas for me?? I'm exhausted!

At 8m I would say roll with it, she hasn't tranistioned onto BST. Make sure you get to bed by 9:30-10.

What time does your lo go to bed ?

Sorry I saw 6pm. Way to early. I would add a third nap on temp basis, to get them through to bedtime. I would pop lo to bed about 730pm to 8pm.

Once you started putting them to bed later it can take up to 3 weeks to reset their internal clock.

Follow Los wake windows and then pop them down for a nap and add a third nap to get them until 8pm for example.

Also to add check other bits. Is it dark? Lo not cold? Hungry? (add a supper or the evening bottle being later will likely help)

Then the third nap phase out when you have a later wake up.

@CarryonCovid ahhh I've been trying this but my partner gets back from work at 9:30-10pm so we end up sleep deprived with no quality time together and it's affecting us so badly:(
@ChittyBang1987 thank you, how long would you say to let her nap and keep her up for after? we attempted this a couple of times but I think she was up too long in the day in total and slept horribly at night😰

That really is tough. I think trying the 3rd nap might be worth it (I would suggest 5pm ish for 45 minites) then be prepared for an incredibly grumpy baby. Unfortunately I have (and am) a lark, left to my own devices I go to sleep around 8-9pm and am waking between 4 &5 at the moment. There is quite a lot of evidence it is genetically determined.

www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/well/mind/is-your-sleep-cycle-out-of-sync-it-may-be-genetic.html

@CarryonCovid thank you! I'll give that a go this evening:) that makes so much sense; I used to be like that years ago too until I first started living with my partner! I'm hoping she adjusts like I did😂

I think I would literally let lo sleep an hour to 1.5 in morning. As long as they wanted over lunch then a 45 min nap as pp suggested about 430pm maybe 5pm. Bed 8pm. Then slowly bring it all later. Moving 15 mins later every few days.

Making sure big feed before nap to encourage longer sleep.

Wake times can vary at that age from 2.5 to 3.5. Depends in your lo and their awake times. My lo didn't do much more then 3.

So my larky boy at 8m did
6am wake
Big breastfeed and books in bed until 7:30 ish
Breakfast 8ish
Naked play then change into dayclothes
Nap 9/9:30-10:30-11
Baby lunch 11/11:30 then into buggy
Out for lunch most days with working friends/granny/ picnic in summer months
Sleep in buggy on the way home (aim for 2-3:30 ish)
Breast feed or bottle on waking
Play at home or once weekly mother and baby yoga
Tea 5/5:30
Bath 6/6:30
Massage
Stories/songs with Daddy
7pm Breastfeed
7:30-7:45 Bed

No ideaif that helps.

If it did all slip a bit early and the 2nd nap was over by 2, I'd try again at 4:30, never had much luck tbh and used to end up putting him to bed at 6:30, enjoying my quiet evening then knowing the next day would be an early one.

Looking at the routine of pp I did similar at that age. 930 till 11. 2 to 215pm till 330pm to 4pm.

We've had exactly this problem too from 7 ish months. Approaching 9 months now and she consistently sleeps until after 6 now (admittedly sometimes only just after) which we're happy with. We leave her in her cot until 6.30/45 which she is fine with.

We tried swapping between a 2 and 3 nap pattern with no real effect and settled on 2 naps with a 10 minute power nap between 4.30/5pm. You have to watch the clock on this one and wake them up at 10 mins. I was so sceptical but it really works - she wakes up fine and it helped tide her over to a 6.30/6.45 bedtime on days when the second nap finished too early. All that said, to be honest I think it might just be a bit developmental and something they grow out of. There is light at the end of the tunnel, just get yourself to bed early in the meantime!

Current rough routine is now:

Up 6/6.30
Breakfast 6.45
Bottle 7.30
Nap 9 - 10.00/30
Bottle 10.30
Lunch 12.30
Nap 13.30/14 - 15.00/30
Bottle 16.00
Tea 17.45
Bedtime routine 18.15
Bottle and bed at 18.45 (usually asleep quickly - goes into cot awake)

Sometimes sleeps through, sometimes wakes for dummy once or twice but has recently started managing to put this back in herself. We've now dropped the power nap most days except for some nursery days if her naps go up the spout.

I would be cautious re making bedtime later - many schools of thought suggest an earlier bedtime (6.30/7 ideal) is actually more likely to reduce early wakings as they are less likely to be overtired when they're going to sleep.

I'd go earlier for late nap and make sure baby doesn't sleep later than 4/4.30. That will mean they go down more easily for night time.

Thank you so much guys, I attempted the third nap and it worked because she was up at 6 the next day, but we're back to the 5am wakes now😭
I tried the third nap again today but she only slept for 5 minutes and has been a nightmare since then!
@CarryonCovid @ChittyBang1987 we are on basically the same schedule to those except she wakes up at 5! I wonder why she doesn't want to sleep that extra hour (unless I hold her until 6😩)
@MGee123 thank you! when you left her in the cot did you base the first nap off when you got her out? if so how did you avoid her being overtired?

In all honesty (after having 4 kids!) I don’t think a later bedtime equates to a later wake up! Think it just happens! Mine were always in bed by 6 at that age (30minute nap somewhere between 9 and 10) and 2 hour nap between 12 and 3, never let them sleep later than 3pm! Sometimes when mine went to bed even earlier than 6 they slept in later!

I would make sure the room is pitch black - it’s light early now which makes a difference and make sure they’re not hungry!

It can take up to 3 weeks with any changes you make to routine to reset lo. I generally base first nap once out of cot.

What time are you putting lo to bed?

@Matilda1981 Wow, hopefully mine ends like that!! I've put extra blankets round the edges of the blackout blind tonight so hopefully that helps🤞
@ChittyBang1987 We used to have 7-7:30 bedtime but since she fought that extra nap tonight she was in bed at just after 6:30:(

Good luck! It’s naff ha ha when they wake up early but all of mine are incredibly good sleepers now - the two youngest are 3 and 2 and they are pretty much guaranteed to have 12-13 hours sleep at night, normally in bed by 7 ish!

Tbh 6pm bed with 5am wake is 11 hours which is a good solid sleep. My lo never sleeps more then 11..... try feeding at 5am to help lo through too.

How about for couple days hold lo from 5am till lo wakes up. Then hopefully you can get till 7am. I know it's hard at that time of morning. Then that can be a starting point of bringing that first nap to 930am till 11am then 2pm nap until 330pm/4pm ? Giving you a later bedtime?