Baby needs to learn to self soothe or will be sold at next nct sale

[bellini1]

I know that are are lots of threads along these lines already but just wanted to start my own so I can rant. Dd is nearly 7 months old and cannot cannot cannot self soothe at night . Not so bad in day . Basically I dream feed her at 10.00/10.30 ( I had ditched this but saw a sleep nurse who said to reintroduce) then she wakes at about 2.30 and it takes anywhere up to 2 hours to get her to go back to sleep. She isn't screaming the whole 2 hours . I either have to bounce her, or hold her hand in cot or give her the dummy whilst patting her. As soon as I stop any of these things she stirs and starts crying and thrashing around.

On advice of sleep nurse I tried PUPD but only did it for 3 nights as each night it was 3 hours of hell . She has never slept longer than 4 hours at night and was, up until last week waking at 11.30 , 1, then 4.

I was feeding her to sleep so she's definitely developed a bad sleep association . I'm now trying to not feed her unless all else fails . Currently feeding now as it's 5am and I've even up with her since 2.30 am .

How the hell do I get her to get herself back to sleep? Do I preserve with pupd ? Absolutely going out of mind and crying as I'm typing this .

[zoobaby]

Oh yeah, and weaning didn't help either. I stressed so badly that he was going hungry. But he wasn't. I suspect (?! cos there's no way to know for sure ?!) that he also had a LONG period of teething pain. When the pain became obvious to me I'd give him paracetamol, cuddle and a bit of BF, put in bed even if he resisted a little, leave dim light coming through door, go to kitchen to rinse the syringe, and he'd happily go back off to sleep before I'd finished in kitchen.

[zoobaby]

[note time of post - urgh]
I was struggling with multiple wakings and long settling periods trying not to create bad sleep associations and the good ol rod for my back. Then one night I cracked the shits and decided to just go for Kat's path of least resistance. What a relief for both of us. I found that waking him for a dream feed actually prompted him to wake every 3 hours. Slowly the time between bed and first waking became longer.

DS also really loved having a muslin given to him immediately which he always pulled up over his face (replicating snuggly feeling? Who knows?).

Things got really good around his 1st birthday. Now he's 18 months and it's a different story again. Just hoping to ride it out now as I feel better knowing he can do it but there's just something stopping him right now.

[pricklyPea]

I've never done a dream Feed but it might be worth starting with one that way you can be sure she's not hungry.

I assumed starting solids would help but mine woke up the same and it seemed was comfort suckling. The person I spoke to said to get the naps sorted and nights would improve. Last night mine woke up at midnight and took 40 mins to resettle but didn't wake after that which is an improvement from two or three wakings. The second night I tried we got 8hrs straight away.

I'd just reached the end of my tether with the constant night feeds and only me being able to settle the baby through the day. At least this technique means dh can be allocated a night per week and I can go to bed and not get up, with feeding to sleep it was only me doing it.

I'm not saying this technique works all babies but mine who fights and fights sleep and gets agitated the more you pick up and talk, then this worked


Good luck

[bellini1]

Wow sounds like you've got it sorted prickly pea. I'm definitely going to give it a go .are you doing a dream feed? I hate that she is so knackered and just wants to get back to sleep . One more thing I've noticed is that her sleep has got worse since introducing solids so I'm wondering if there is something going on there with her digestive system.

[pricklyPea]

Sorry their advice is to turn them once calm onto their side. Mine's ok with rolling both ways and so I'm ok with the front sleeping so I leave on the front.
When I first place baby in the cot I do so on their back.

Mine's gone from unable to settle except with my boob in mouth to settling in five minutes without any patting for naps and tonight in 6mins without me going in.

I also don't pick the baby up from the cot. I just keep patting. The first morning wake up took an hour so it's not without the need for patience but it seems to be working. Mine really fights sleep. Rubbing eyes and yawning but still grumbling and fighting for an hour. It was hard going as just when you thought it was ok to leave then it started again with grumbles.

Mine's never slept well. Has gone through the night a few times but was never consistent.
Very frustrating.

[bellini1]

Sounds interesting prickly pea . Is it ok to put a 6 month old on front? She always loved sleeping on her side in Moses basket as a newborn. I'm up for anything . I used to be so smug that i had such a lazy laidback baby with my DS and would pity those poor souls with shit sleepers ...... And now here I am !

[pricklyPea]

Hello op.
I could have written your post last week, I was feeding to sleep, my baby refused to through the day without boob attached, I was a wreck.

Of course everyone else seems to have babies that sleep well and they were suggesting attending a sleep school and I had just about had enough of being attached through the day and up all night feeding my 9mth old.

I called a helpline (I'm not in the UK) specific to sleep and said that I was exhausted and fed up with nobody giving me any clear cut advice, just co sleep, just pat their bottom etc so I said just tell me what you do at sleep school and since following this plan my previous non sleeping unless feeding and being held for naps baby, has slept every nap in the cot and I no longer feed to sleep at night.

This is the exact plan I followed:
Have baby's room dark and with a radio on easy listening playing liw.

Wake up and feed baby in the morning.
Approx three hrs later (or when baby starts their sleepy signs) take baby into their room and do as you would at night (I put mine into a grobag) and place into the cot and say "Shhh sleepy time.." give a kiss or whatever you'd do and leave the room.

Set a timer for five minutes and if the baby is upset or really not settling go back in say "shh sleepy time.." and physically turn them onto their tummy and with one hand on their back start rhythmically patting their bottom with the other hand. (I had to physically hold baby firmly the first time and there was a lot of protesting which was upsetting but I stuck with it and after five minutes it was calming).

Once calm but still awake leave the room again set timer for five minutes (or whatever you are comfortable with) and repeat as above if still unsettled and not calming themself. (They said to repeat for 30-40 mins but I didn't want to have baby upset for that long so I just go in twice and if by then there's no self settling, then on the third attempt I then keep patting baby until completely asleep).

First attempt took twenty minutes from start to finish. The next took ten and today each time has been under five minutes to self settle.

Do this for each nap.

Nights are exactly the same, you do your bedtime routine and if you want to feed before bed then you do so outside the bedroom with the lights on. We then say night to everyone, put into the grobag and into bed. If baby is waking up through the night I was told to try and soothe first and if not working then offer a feed before midnight and after 6am, otherwise feed as a complete last resort. You may want to continue feeding at night, however I'd still then try to put into the cot awake and repeat the steps above so you're not feeding to sleep.

I was so sceptical about any training and did not want to use any cry it out or controlled crying but I was becoming unwell and I think the method for me has been successful as I was confident in my approach and consistent. If you do choose to give something a try then I believe you must stick with it otherwise it'll cause so much confusion.

I was sure that the baby didn't need to feed at night and wanted to reclaim some time to myself through the day. You're not leaving them to cry for extended periods and so I was happy it was right for us.

This is by no means to everyone's taste but thought I'd share what worked for us hopefully reasonably clearly so that it's not just 'give them a patt on the bottom'.

[bellini1]

No haven't tried calpol. Will give it a go . I never understand why it doesn't bother them when they are awake . She's also a bit bunged up so will resort to lots of pear and prunes.

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

I would bet money that this is teeth. Have you tried calpol as soon as she wakes? Give it 20 minutes to kick in and then try to settle.

[bellini1]

Ok so I've given in and let her feed but it's still taking me well over 2 hours to get her back to sleep . I've had to leave the nursery because it's winding me up sooooooo much . She's still kicking off now. Now I'm worried that not even the good old boob is going to work . Jesus Christ !

[ThatsMyOnlyShirt]

OP you have my sympathy.

This thread has made me feel so much better about my 9 months "sleep associations" etc.

[Thereishope]

Try cc. It worked for me after two nights. The first night was challenging. I spent one hour picking up ds, reassuring him and laying him back in his cot. I stood just outside of the door where he could not see me.

The second night ds cried but was not delirious. He cried and fussed then fell asleep.

Ever since then I bathe him and lay him in his cot. He fusses, plays then falls asleep.

He is my second dc though. I just could not do cc the first time and I paid for it! Dd did not sleep unless we lay patting her. This stopped when she was 3 years. There is no way that I am willing repeat that especially as I return to work this year.

You have to persevere.

[sheeplikessleep]

Ds3 is 7 months and similar. I always feed him to sleep and was beginning to wonder if I should start to break the association.

Most nights, he is up 3 times. Some nights, he has slept through 7pm until 4.30am. No rhyme or reason why so inconsistent. I always do the same - just feed him quickly until he falls asleep and put him down.

I've had a conversation with DH tonight about it. Should I start to disassociate feeding from falling asleep. Gawd though, the thought of not feeding him to sleep in the night fills me with dread.

I did a similar thing with ds2 when he got to 10 months. He was on 3 decent meals a day by then, plus bf's in the day. DH ended up cuddling and patting him back to sleep through the night. It took 3 nights and then he was sleeping through. I will probably follow the same thing if we are still up 3 times a night in a few months with ds3.

[pinkr]

I've been told by two different people today alone that cc helped them greatly...I just don't think I have it in me but I'm exhausted.
No family nearby,Co sleeping doesn't work, she won't take a bottle and screams hysterically if dh tries to settle her, she screams if I try to feed lying down.
cc is scaring me but I can't function like this either...I feel I'm missing the best parts of her because I'm so exhausted I just want her to play in her swing or nest during the day so I can lie on the couch.
Your not alone op.

[Estrellita]

Sorry you're in the thick of this and struggling. Are there any coping strategies you can put in place to help you get more rest? Can you go to bed early or co sleep and feed lying down? If co sleeping is not an option, do you have a partner who can help out a bit at night? Or family or a friend that could come over in the daytime so you can rest?

[stillhopefulforanother]

I feel better reading these responses.

I'm just SO exhausted, I'm getting so run down that I'm starting to get injuries. Every day I ask myself, is my feeding her to sleep at the start of the night causing her to wake do much. My gut is saying no, I think it's illness, teeth, separation anxiety etc.

I read on the Internet about not feeding to sleep/sleep associations/self soothing/blah it's driving me bits and makes me anxious.

It's so hard isn't it.. Sorry feeling tired and over emotional

[pinkr]

7months here and dd is regular as clockwork... guaranteed to see ten,one.three and five in the night. The most she'll do is three hours but only after first bed at seven. The rest of the time it's two hours. I've been holding out the feeding but resulted in being awake from three till five. She'll settle whilst I'm patting or holding but as soon as I'm back in bed she'll start again. Eventually I give in and feed her

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

If feeding works then just do it, she will find her own way in time.

My DS2 is 3 this week and has only really got the hang of settling himself to sleep in the last month.

We are exhausted, but he has never slept much and doesn't find it easy to drop off. He's bright and full of beans, he isn't overtired, he just snaps awake in about 2 seconds and then can't settle down again.
We did try CC in desperation once, but he just screamed and screamed and worked himself up - just has DS1 did when we tried it with him.

Some children just need more help getting to sleep, in the same way that some kids pick up reading with no effort while others need lots of support and help.

[Gerty1002]

No advice but just wanted to sau you're not alone. I'm going through similar with 6.5mo DS, but he is ff so feeding to sleep not an option, plus I know he's not hungry as he's not even interested in morning bottle anymore.

Cosleeping helps him sleep, but not me unfortunately and I end up aching all over the next day. Last night DP and I took half the night each sleeping on the floor next to his cot. It's getting desperate and I can feel myself getting more and more run down.

Fingers crossed we both get some decent sleep soon. Good luck!

[Martorana]

If feeding sends her to sleep, then feed her. The line of least resistance is the way to go- honestly. Whatever gets the most sleep for the most people. Thee is a school of that says that self soothing is a myth anyway!

[Nocomet]

Why fight, why struggle, why worry and why make everyone miserable?

[Nocomet]

Co sleep and let her feed.

[bellini1]

I think the general gist here is that I should just accept and relax!! I don't think I can cope with night after night if 4 hour battles so if I just feed her she will go beck to sleep . Other thing I was thinking was about when I put dd down for bedtime at 7 she generally is asleep , so should I try and put her down semi awake? Thinking that might help self soothing?

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

PUPD doesn't tend to work if they're too easily over stimulated. I would try going back to drowsy but awake and go from there. Make sure that he's not overtired before bedtime as it will only make it worse.

Just try and always give the opportunity to self soothe. I used to do the routine, making sure that milk was at the beginning of the proceedings so;

Bath if required
Pjs
Milk
Book
Teeth (if required)
Bed

This removes the association

Then put down after a cuddle and leave him to it. Try just 5 minutes and then go back in for a quick bum rub until he went over. He eventually started to just go over in that 5 minutes. I didn't feel it was too cruel but that's your decision

[Estrellita]

Super sensible advice all around here. My DD was exactly the same, always needed help getting to sleep, multiple night wakings until very recently. Even supposedly gentle methods of sleep training, like pupd, shush pat, gradual withdrawal were lost on her. Never resulted in anything but hours of crying for both of us. Tweaked routines endlessly to no effect. So we just did whatever we could to help her get to sleep, and to maximize sleep time for ourselves, even if it meant going to bed early, sleeping in shifts, taking turns getting up, trading weekend lie ins, napping during the day if possible, and co sleeping with DD.

Good news, a couple of months ago she started asking to get in her cot at bedtime, laying down and going to sleep with no feeding, rocking, cuddling etc. Just her lullaby music, favorite blanket and someone to hold her hand. She is usually out in about 15 minutes and sleeps through 12 hours most nights. Bad news, she just turned 2 last month!

You may find success with some firm of sleep training when your baby is a bit older, or you may have to persevere for awhile and put management and coping strategies into place while the situation lasts. Contrary to the books, I do think that this is just the way some babies are. You can drive yourself insane trying to force the issue before they're ready, or you can ride it out, give them what they need and do your best to cope. Keep trying different things, but try not to despair if they are not effective. Wait awhile, then try again, or try something else.

It is very hard. Good luck to you!