Need your thoughts on Baby Einstein dvds and idea of "educational" stuff for babies generally for Jeremy Vine show today October 30th

[carriemumsnet]

Hi All

We've been invited on to Jeremy Vine's radio show for a discussion based on this story. We have lots of reviews for Baby Einstein stuff on Mumsnet and most are pretty positive. I have to say my mother-in-law got me one for my PFB and we watched it in that way you do with PFBs My memory of it was that it was mind numbing for adults, but calmed her down - mind you I also tried cd's of white noise.. she was a fractious child and there was no Mumsnet in those days . Anyway they want a wider conversation about the rights and wrongs of parents trying to make their children brighter by exposing them to different videos/music/activities. Is this a good or bad thing.

Any thoughts you can pass on before about 12 noon today would be most welcome.

Thanks
MNHQ

[PuppyMonkey]

I was the same, Stripey!! I got all excited to think it might be on Kyle at first, then it registered!!!

[StripeyKnickersSpottySocks]

I always get Jeremy Vine and Jeremy Kyle muddled up. Was a bit that MN was going on Jeremy Vine, then realised it was Radio 2 not the TV programme of "Who's the father of my baby" genre.

The poster who is Jeremy Vile doesn't help my thought processes.

[fleacircus]

I read an interesting article a while ago (just before my PFB was born) that traced the evolution of this type of product back to the widespread publication of stories revealing the lives of children in Romanian orphanages - suggesting that because the lack of any stimulation had severely curtailed their emotional and intellectual development, extrapolated from that we have the reverse assumption, i.e. that you can determinedly stimulate any child to academic and intellectual brilliance. Tisn't true, sadly, but it's a great way to make money. Capitalist exploitation of parental anxiety, like so many things.

[BertieBotts]

I think children and babies learn a lot more by experiencing different everyday things - watching adults interact and exploring items made of all materials (ie not just plastic toys but things like keys, wooden spoons, food, leaves, anything and everything)

I think the baby DVDs are better than normal TV as that tends to move very fast and have lots of flashing movement and colours which is overstimulating and has been shown to possibly affect brain development.

[MrsBadger]

well yes alaska so did I, but that was before 24h CBeebies and DVDs
so we probably watched a max of 3h a day even during a rainy half term, because the rest was rubbish.

If I she wanted to dd could watch nonstop 24-7...

[GhoulsAreLoud]

oh god they don't watch tv so what

[AlaskaNebraska]

i watched tv
i LOVED tv mum went on about " too much tv"
i just loved it

[AlaskaNebraska]

oh god they watch tv so what

[MrsBadger]

yes I use 'educational' tv to make myself feel less guilty about using it at all, but imo Something Special is way better than most of the 'educational' dvds on offer anway.

I think the 'different activities making them brighter' is a bit of a red herring - an 'activity' doesn't have to be french / ballet / yoga at £10 an hour
but Doing A Wide Variety Of Stuff is v important, even if it's only stopping to look at a building site / dropping stones in puddles / baking / messing in the sandpit etc.

[GhoulsAreLoud]

Well I am fervently in the pretty much no TV for under 2s camp so my DD has never watched these.

She was never interested in TV under the age of 1, she wouldn't even look at it or acknowledge it was on. Since then though I've seen her turn into a little zombie when TV is on at friend's houses and I don't like it at all. Certainly wouldn't put her in front of the TV expecting it to her assist her development.

[naughtystepforme]

Stripey That wasn't my point, I just think that many parents in hoping to raise their DC IQ or something think that they must be stimulated at all times, hence the endless round of activities. I personally think that there is a benefit to a child having some down time (not in front of a tv) where they have to play on their own and entertain themselves, I think that is a real skill to learn.

[StripeyKnickersSpottySocks]

I don't think TumbleTots, Sing and Sing, etc is as bad as Baby Einstein. I doubt there is any educational benefit to these classes but it gets mums/dads out the house which is a god send when you have a baby and are going demented. Plus its the interaction between parent and baby/toddler which is good. No interaction in plonking baby in front of tv.

[StripeyKnickersSpottySocks]

I don't think the videos are any more educational than a mobile that plays a soothing tune and entertains a child by having bright colours moving about. Of course its going to get a baby's attention.

It worried me that some parents will use these videos thinking they're good for their children when instead time spent interacting with their children will be far more beneficial.

Of course every parent needs a break at some point and TV is good for that. But I think parents may use more TV if they are convinced its also educational. Wheras the guilt will maybe kick in earlier if its a non educational programme. There is certainly research that says too much TV is bad for young children, regardless of content.

[AlaskaNebraska]

the late 90s verion of this kind of hting

lord mums are run off heir feet what is SO Wrong wiht 20 mins to restore calm?>

[AlaskaNebraska]

i dindt get it cos it was educational Justine!
the other one i used was one with the cathcy song "mass mass mass excavator" as we watched 30 mins of digger action, if your kid fell asleep on your lap there you were buggered wiht " diggers dumpers and trucks"

[SpookyScattyKatty]

We have the whole DVD boxset, my DH wants a refund! Then again he didn't want to buy them in the first place

I actually think they are quite entertaining, my DS (21 months) enjoys watching them, no I don't think they alone will transform his intellect but they are better than half the rubbish you get on children's television IMO.

[naughtystepforme]

[naughtystepforme]

Carrie Yes, I think there is an element of that, and I think its the same people that take their DD to ballet on Monday, Sing and Sign on Tuesday, TumbleTots on Wednesday, AquaTots on Thursday and Craft 'n' Play on Friday - lest there is a single moment that their DC are not fully stimulated...

[AlaskaNebraska]

BABYEINTSIN= lunch in peace for me.

[Anifrangapani]

She IS the most beautiful, intelligent, gifted and talented child in the whole world ( according to me at least) .

[carriemumsnet]

Thanks - think there's definitely something in the guilt thing - we need TV to give us a few minutes to get something done and if someone says something is educational/has classical music we want to go with that to make us feel better

Don't you think there's an element with your PFB that you think they are already the most beautiful, intelligent amazing creature ever created so giving them additional so- called educational stimulation, whether it's classical music, dvd's speaking French (when you're not French) is acceptable... it's only when you look back you realise how dotty you were (and that actually your French isn't that good? (ooh a Halloween Smiley...how exciting... you can tell I've been away a couple of days )

[Bucharest]

I think as long as we take the "educational" element out of the equation, there is nothing wrong with spending yet another £30 on something for our children to play with.

But children have been learning to read for hundreds of years, and enjoying it. Without an electronic gadget that winks and blinks and makes them a cup of tea while they're doing it.

We are, yet again, seduced by a very cynical marketing policy that tells us we are somehow inadequate, or don't care enough, if we don't have the latest Einstein/Vtech/Leapster/Tag system. The most cynical element of all of this is the "educational" label.

Educational is going for a walk in the woods and looking at trees, or heaven forbid, sitting down with a bloody book and reading it, it doesn't have to involve fistfuls of wanga and have to be plugged in.

(only because it's a fun toy though, not because I am buying into the "educational" twaddle.)

[naughtystepforme]

More thinking about the idea of trying to make DC brighter, I used to teach a boy who had been 'hot-housed' by his parents at home, as a result he was very well read (way beyond his years) and was a mine of facts and information but was so socially retarded it was untrue.

I spoke to him often about his hobbies etc and he didn't have any, lessons with mum and dad started as soon as he got home from school and this had been going on for years. He was in secondary school when I taught him.

The problem though was that they had taught him lots of information but no analytical or social skills (he had no friends, actually no friends) so if given a problem where he had to think through something to a logical conclusion he couldn't do it, neither could he empathise with classmates/characters in books. But if you asked for the first 15 elements in the periodic table he could reel them off straight away.

Needless to say, it didn't go down well with the parents when he didn't get the top marks because he was unable to analyse a problem...

Anyway, I'm rambling. My point (if indeed I have one) is that helping your DC to experience things and think about things is great, but it can really be taken too far.

[Anifrangapani]

I never did get the art of typing ... skills has 2 l's

[Anifrangapani]

I have never really understood them - A lot of studies show that a child who learns through play is better off eg recent Cambridge Study. I see them more as a way of making parents feel guilty about not teaching their kids at an early age to give them the "best start" in life.

Flash cards put my older brother off reading until he was 10 so they do not always work. Although he has post grad qualificcations he is still reluctant to read. Fortunately my parents binned them when I came along.

My daughter was not taught to read until she was in her reception class - she is now one of the top readers, because she was ready to learn that skill. While she wasn't learning to read she was exploring her environment and social structures - skils which are much harder to learn at an older age.

My opinion - waste of money and guilt inducing marketing mean they are a bad thing.