MNHQ here: Have you been made to wear high heels at work?

[RowanMumsnet]

Greetings!

Parliament's Petitions Committee has been in touch to ask whether MNers would like to feed in to its investigation into women being required to wear high heels at work.

The investigation is in response to a petition on the Parliament website asking the government to 'make it illegal for a company to require women to wear high heels at work'. The petition has had nearly 150,000 signatures, and as a result the petitions committee is going to look into the matter more thoroughly.

This is what they say:

"If you've been personally affected by this issue we want to hear from you."

"Your experiences will help us understand the problem. It will also give us an idea of how many people this affects and help us to decide what action to recommend to the Government."

"When sharing your experiences, please include:

• What were the circumstances that led to you being made to wear high heels? For example: what type of work was involved? Were you a permanent or a temporary member of staff?
  
• Did you challenge the requirement? If so, what was the outcome?
  
• Did you think that the requirement was reasonable?
  
• What does a reasonable work dress code mean to you?"
  
  "Please note that the user name you choose will appear with your comment. Please do not name specific companies/employers in your post."
  
  If you prefer, you can respond directly to the Committee via this link.
  
  Thanks
  MNHQ

[ZestyCitrus]

@TiggyD why would you be asked?

[AliceDMumsnet]

Hello,

Just a quick update for those of you who posted here and signed the petition:

The Government has responded to the report produced by the Petitions Committee and Women and Equalities Select Committee into high heels and workplace dress codes.

The Government has 'undertaken to produce guidance during this summer and to explore other options for raising further awareness of the law on dress codes. The Equality and Human Rights Commission has already run a social media campaign aimed at young women to promote awareness of the law.'

You can read more about this here.

Thanks,
MNHQ

[FinnMumsnet]

Hello,

Parliament's Petitions Committee have been in touch again, and they've asked us to post the following:

“As you may have seen, the report by the Petitions Committee and Women and Equalities Select Committee into high heels and workplace dress codes was published today, revealing the troubling experiences of workers affected by discriminatory dress codes.

The Committees are grateful to all MNers who took the time to share their views. These contributions have been invaluable to our inquiry.

The inquiry was triggered after an online petition started by Nicola Thorp - who was sent home from work for refusing to wear high heels - was signed by more than 150,000 people. The Government has said that the dress code imposed on Nicola was unlawful—but the Committees heard that requirements for women to wear high heels at work remain widespread. Our report concludes that the Equality Act 2010 is not yet fully effective in protecting workers from discrimination.

Our report calls for
· the Government to take urgent action to improve the effectiveness of the Equality Act. It recommends that the Government reviews this area of the law and, if necessary, asks Parliament to amend it.
· more effective remedies — such as increased financial penalties — for employment tribunals to award against employers who breach the law, in order to provide an effective deterrent.
· the Government to introduce guidance and awareness campaigns targeted at employers, workers and students, to improve understanding of the law and workers' rights.

You can read the full report, ‘High heels and workplace dress codes’, including the conclusions and recommendations, on the Parliament website.

The online petition closed with over 152,000 signatures, and will be debated in Parliament on Monday 6 March. You can watch the debate live on the day or catch up with it afterwards at parliamentlive.tv."

Thanks,
MNHQ

[LBOCS2]

I work in the property industry (but not sales). I spend time climbing in scaffolding, inspecting plant rooms and standing outside in -5 discussing plans with gardeners. I tend to wear boots with a low heel; high enough that my feet don't feel too flat, low enough that I can actually do my job.

Unless I'm on a construction site, in which case I have a very fetching pair of steel toe capped construction boots.

[ipsogenix]

I work in academia and I have noticed that the ladies in the most senior jobs (Directors of institutes usually) switch into smart suits and uncomfortable looking shoes. They always look so uncomfortable and tired and I feel sorry for them. The junior people are allowed to wear whatever helps them get the job done.

I understand the lawyer who says it's already illegal to enforce this but I think it would be great to raise awareness of legal rights.

[Anerak]

Yes when I work for Karen Millen (not in the UK). I was also banned from wearing my glasses. Contact lenses to be bought at my own expense of course

[metimeisforwimps]

I work in academia where less emphasis is put on image. No.one has ever commented on my attire, certainly not my footwear. But I'm very glad to see this issue being discussed. I personally detest high heels, not only can I not walk in them I think they look awful. I realise I am in a minority here, but having been pressured into wearing them on one (non work) occasion, and feeling violated, it makes me shudder to think women could be forced into wearing them for economic reasons.

[feellikeahugefailure]

No i never have. I would never work for somewhere that did!

[MaisyMooMoo]

Yes, I worked as a member of Cabin Crew and we had to wear heels to and from the aircraft. Flats were only allowed on board obviously for safety reasons. We were also made to wear make-up. I was disciplined once because I wasn't wearing enough lipstick.

[littledrummergirl]

I used to wear walking shoes as my role involved being on my feet 8hrs a day in a supermarket fetching and carrying. After a couple of years things became horrible in many ways.

Being told I had to wear something that looked nicer and being told it was so much better on the day I wore heels which crippled me by lunch, was used as an example of the bullying I was facing.

They settled outside of tribunal.

[TiggyD]

I've never been asked either. Heels are banned in the places I work, childcare, because they might puncture the babies.

[annandale]

Never, thank goodness. I have had comments about shoes not being smart enough in private sector jobs - and in one case it was a healthcare job requiring lifting and handling, shoes had to be a specific unusual colour, and due to my large distorted lumpy feet, it nearly killed me getting anything. Men in the same job had a different uniform and could get black shoes so a piece of piss to get. I was told off for not having shoes like the others, I.e. Court kitten heels. I think people with ordinary feet have absolutely no idea what having bunions, claw toes and all the rest of it actually looks like. I would have to do an Ugly Sister and cut a couple of toes off to fit in shoes like that.

I agree that the legislation already exists for this, either Sex Discrimination (which would cover men in ties and skirts) and Health and Safety at work (which wouldn't.)

So much more to the point would be a debate on removing the fee for employment law cases again. Which this government brought in.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

No I have not been asked to wear high heels at work.

My working life since graduating in 1981 has been spent in law offices, briefly in the public sector and thereafter in the private sector.

Every one has a dress code of being smart. None of them had any rules or passed any comment about heel height or shoe style (although trainers would not be acceptable) I have never heard any female colleague in any other legal office say such a code applied either.

I have read comments on here to the effect that it might not be an official code but it's expected if you want to get on. Oddly, my own experience of beng promoted and making decisions on other women's promotions is if you want to get on being good at and committed to your work are the requirements.

[LifeHuh]

From my perspective the equivalent to suit/ ties for men is the requirement to wear dresses,tights,etc - not implying that I like to work naked but I wear ' work clothes' to work - I don't wear skirts or dresses out of the work environment,but have worked in places where that was expected. And I don't like dressing like that because I feel uncomfortable but would if I had to.
Heels are different,because pain and permanent damage is not the same as being a bit uncomfortable.
Make up might be equivalent though - I don't wear make up to work at the mo,but when I have I've had to stop because of allergic,sensitive skin type problems,and it isn't just the make up,it's the physically putting it on and removing it,so hypoallergenic products don't solve the issue.

[Trills]

I am very glad I work in tech and don't have to deal with this.

I agree that it is an issue worth tackling.

Those complaining saying there are more important things to worry about - do you only think and care abut one thing at a time in strict order of importance? Personally I feel that I can think about FGM and the pay gap at the same time as thinking about discriminatory dress codes.

[SueTrinder]

Another scientist here. Our dress code says toes must be covered by leather shoes (I am naughty and wear sandals sometimes but I have safety shoes I can change into if I need), and shoes must be 'sensible'. There has been some debate about if a maximum height for heels should be set (no more than 2" has been suggested). In certain locations on plant you have to wear steel toe capped shoes. 90% of people wear trousers (quite a lot wear jeans) and yes, we assume someone has a client in if they are smartly dressed (the definition of smart being man wearing a tie or woman wearing a dress).

[Effendi]

When I was a holiday rep we were told what style of heels we had to wear and we paid for them ourselves. No flats allowed on airport and welcome meeting days. On other days we could wear the casual uniform with trainers, again a specific style paid for ourselves.

[StrawberryTartYum]

I was, along with my two fellow supervisors at a hotel. We were permanent members of staff, and expected to wear heels at all times, although the managers did turn a blind eye during quieter day shifts. Heels made it difficult to work as we were on our feet for entire shifts, serving food and drinks, walking across shiny tiled floors, bending down into drinks fridges and clambering over beer kegs in the cellar. I never challenged it, even when pregnant, as the mangers were both dragons. I did hear one shout at my fellow supervisor as she was so small and looked five years old (managers words). The heels were to make us look polished (full make up was insisted on and our uniforms were black body con river island dresses!). They certainly made working harder though, and were it not for the ballet pumps that we would stealthily wear when the managers were away, we would have had very miserable days.

[specialsubject]

The very small heel advice came from an experienced physio. No heel is ballet flats. Great for ballet...

[Spirael]

I have hypermobility in my feet and ankles, causing me to have flat feet, a significant inward roll and meaning I can barely find shoes that fit - let alone ones that are comfortable. A few years ago I fell down some stairs and went right over on my ankle, causing severe ligament damage that took over a year to heal entirely.

Several months after the incident, when I was still in significant pain, my manager pulled me aside at work to say that the plain black, suede leather, flat shoes I was wearing were not acceptable and he wanted me to be in smart, heeled, office shoes. I pointed out that I couldn't walk in them, so he told me I needed to have smart shoes to wear at my desk, but that I could change my shoes if I needed to walk anywhere.

I'm a database developer - I'm never client or public facing and spend the vast majority of my working life sat at a desk working on my computer. I fail to see how me being required to wear smart shoes is at all relevant to the job I do, besides providing entertainment to my colleagues as I totter unsteadily to the washroom, fall down stairs and waste my salary on useless and expensive footwear.

I have since moved to a different company that is more accepting of flat shoes.

[EBearhug]

I'm in Scotland at the moment. Plenty of men wearing kilts as part of their uniform, at least in touristy places.

[MyAmDeryCross]

Until relatively recently (in the past 15 years) a company I used to work for wouldn't allow women to wear trousers. Interestingly it was a company founded by a woman.

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but it would be interesting to know what the company's response would be if a man came to work wearing heels. Or a dress or skirt? Or if a company declared it mandatory for men to wear skirts or dresses.

Or the company who mandated that skirts must be 50cm/20in and employed a dwarf?

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

I feel proud to work in IT now . We're a scruffy lot and there's nowt better than being scruffy and comfortable IMO.

[VenusRising]

High fives fellow scientists, engineers and IT workers!