what the actual is that facebook like button doing there?

[CarolCervix]

has it always been there? or has it moved? and does that mean if someone 'likes' that thread it will be posted to their fb page?

[MissAnnersley]

I have had a long hard think about this. I don't 'do' Facebook or Twitter and I too have very good reasons for this.

It has made me think though and so I've name changed and will be far more careful about the boards I post on. I do think this is a great pity as one board in particular has given me some well needed support.

I also think that because the 'like' button is on older threads I will probably ask for my previous posts to be deleted. I don't think there is too much that I've revealed about myself, but, like others I fear for my privacy in a way I hadn't before - probably wrongly.

It is my personal responsibility of course and I absolutely understand this.

I have to say that I completely agree with the points made by MoreBeta.

Lesson learned though.

[5318hoho8]

The thing about MN being a secret, cosy little place to sit and chat is an illusion - it's always been searchable

Be careful what you post: home town, birthplace, birthday, age, childrens names, schools, your car model, your job - a little light harvesting and you're identified - it is so not just an FB button that makes you vulnerable

Here endeth the lesson

[Auntiestablishment]

I thought it happened quite regularly?

[MoreBeta]

MNHQ - I think you need to think about this from a purely business point of view. It will only take one breach of personal privacy of its members and the MN site will collapse. Trust is very very important and if there is even one adverse incident that resulted from a MNetter being traced or outed via their MN posts on Facebook then people will dereg in droves.

It is like airline safety. It only takes one crash and a rumour that planes are not being maintained and that airline will fold in a week. Same with MN.

[MoreBeta]

DwayneDibbley - I totally agree with this.

"I think there are many who would like you to remove ALL of their previous posts, myself included. ..... But I would ask you personally, as someone who has taken that risk from a genuine motive of reaching out, to reconsider this aspect."

I certainly now feel I would like to have a few of my past posts removed. I have always felt that MN should remove all posts after 1 year to stop people searching back to piece together personal info.

[MoreBeta]

Over the last year there are certain subject areas I have decided I won't talk about at all now on MN since the site became much more public on Twitter/Facebook after the election. I am already planning not to talk about my children anymore. I wont even reply on the thread if it involves mentioning my family or anything personal at all that I would not be willing to put on a puiblic noticeboard outside my house.

I will PM people instead and I suspect a lot of people will start doing that to maintain their privacy. I dont mind talking about politics or economics or general Chat stuff but not anything that involves talking about my own family or experiences.

Sorry MNHQ but I'm not writing it on the public part of the website anymore. I deliberately do not have a Facebook or Twitter account for a very good reason.

[JustineMumsnet]

@cat64

Thing is though Justine. There are nearly 1000 posts on this thread, and the vast majority don't want the button. Surely that ought to count for something.
I'm not claiming to speak for anyone else - I'm not very technical, I just come on here as a parent, and I've never known about this way of linking a thread to FB, until it's all come to light this last week. Now, everyone does. The fact it is now 'in your face' means that it's much more likely to be used. You can't surel;y deny that's the reason you've made the changes ? So it does increse the exposure.

Yes that's a fair point cat - we put it at the top of the thread because we
wanted people to be able to click easily. Most of our Talk developments are about facilitating things that people are already doing manually.

As said, we are keen for people to spread the word. It used to be (about a year ago before we redesigned the top nav) that there was a Facebook and a Twitter share link on every single post - we've been meaning to implement this change since then we lost the share buttons but the way things are, it's taken a while to get round to it. So yes it does increase exposure I suppose because it's a prominent link at the top of a thread. But to us it feels like it's less than the exposure we had before IYSWIM.

[IAmFuckingPissedOff]

"If you feel you have to de-reg because Mn is public, then we are very sorry to lose you, but we'd rather that than compromise your identity"

Back to disingenuous, I think .

Say it as it is. "We are sorry to lose you, but getting new users is more important."

Thanks .

All I asked for was a facility to hide it on "my customise". I haven't yet got an answer as to whether that is possible.

[JustineMumsnet]

@BobbinRobin

Justine - for me the issue isn't really so much that I might out myself on a particular thread on a particular issue.

It's more that I don't want the whole of my FB knowing what I might happen to be reading on the internet at that moment - for a multitude of reasons. None of them a particularly big deal (my life isn't that interesting), it's just that I'd rather keep things separate.

The issue for me is how easy it would be to accidentally hit a wrong button. If it genuinely is very difficult to do accidentally, then that's fine.

It certainly was and is our intention to make that very difficult to do accidentally, Bobbin - I'm not in the office and not quite sure if there has been a tech hitch for some thus far that has meant it has not been difficult but if there has then I apologise and I promise it will be rectified.

[LoremIpsum]

Bobbin, if you accidentally like it, delete it. Most people just have FB open to check now and then. It's highly unlikely anyone will pay that much attention to it, once deleted its gone anyway.

[JustineMumsnet]

@blondie74

So from Justine's post the message is it doesn't matter how much MNetters object to something, if a decision is made to do something to expose MN to a new audience it will be done regardless. If it then results in existing members leaving or not using MN as much it doesn't matter as any new members will bring fresh life to the forum.

Lovely.

Well I feel I been paraphrased a bit harshly there Blondie. Broadly what I'm saying is that the arguments against this button fall into two main objections:

1. We don't like Facebook
2. You're compromising my privacy

The first objection I'm afraid I can't really buy - Most of the UK population uses Facebook. Most Mumsnetters use facebook. It's a bit mad to object to facebook on principle - it's like objecting to people.

The second objection I just think is misguided, as I've explained. Users' privacy is no more compromised by this button than it ever was.

So should we change something because some people on this thread dislike it even if we think they are mistaken to dislike it? Even though what they are objecting to is already in place?

I've been doing this long enough to know that new things are never well-received - but it doesn't always mean they are bad.

In summary.
Do we think new users are a good thing? Yes.
Do we think existing Mumsnetters are a good thing? Yes of course.
Do we think people should stick around only because they are here under the false pretence that Mumsnet is private and secret? No.

[Boffyflow]

I don't understand what the problem is here. Facebook is not compulsory - if not being linked to it from Mumsnet is so important, then log off from Facebook or decativate your Facebook account.
Or don't click the 'like' button.
Take some responsibility for yourselves.

(I too have a sensitive phone and laptop, both of which click onto things by mistake, but have never, ever clicked a 'like' button by mistake)

[LoremIpsum]

Pissed Off there was one poster who said it went to her wall even though she was logged off. It's as likely she made a mistake as it is that this actually happened. If you delete it then it also disappears from other people's newsfeeds. If it flashes up for a second, all anyone will think, if they even notice it, is that you read something on some site on the Internet and thought it worth sharing.

[BobbinRobin]

Justine - for me the issue isn't really so much that I might out myself on a particular thread on a particular issue.

It's more that I don't want the whole of my FB knowing what I might happen to be reading on the internet at that moment - for a multitude of reasons. None of them a particularly big deal (my life isn't that interesting), it's just that I'd rather keep things separate.

The issue for me is how easy it would be to accidentally hit a wrong button. If it genuinely is very difficult to do accidentally, then that's fine.

[ImpOfThePerverse]

If it worries you that much maybe just log into one thing at a time? I think you need to decide which is the bigger annoyance, logging in and out during the day or the possibility of accidentally liking something.

[JustineMumsnet]

If you feel you have to de-reg because Mn is public, then we are very sorry to lose you, but we'd rather that than compromise your identity, if it's important to you that it not be compromised. The whole point of this website is to make people's lives easier - we don't do that if we cause you to out yourself online, if you'd rather not. Only you can know how important it is to you to anonymous online and only you can calculate the level of risk you are prepared to live with. But I'd be lying if I said there was no risk if you do reveal personal info.

That said, I also believe that nothing has actually changed. You are no more or less compromised than you were last week. Mumsnet is anonymous but public. It is searchable; it is often quoted in the national press. People can and do link threads (and posts for that matter) to social networks. I'd rather folks realised that, than lived under a false illusion that it was a secret, private place. It's not.

But given the anonymity, the statistic risk of being discovered is low I would argue (basing it on users' previous experience). Furthermore, how much you choose to reveal and how anonymous you choose to make it, is entirely your decision.

[BobbinRobin]

What about if you are logged in though? I'm pretty much permanently logged into everything during the day as I keep multiple tabs open, as do many people I suspect.

[ImpOfThePerverse]

If you're really not logged in that almost certainly wouldn't be possible, it's easy not to log out of FB properly but if you are logged out properly then 'likes' can't post to your wall. I think this glitch is probably down to people not knowing their FB settings.

I've just tried it and you can remove the like from the MN end so you wouldn't need to be logged into FB to remove it, liking while logged out didn't catch up and post when I logged back in again, it just didn't work.

I don't know why I care as I'm never going to use the button so it will make no difference to me if MN remove it, I just think people who think this is a bigger loss of privacy than posting on a public website are missing the point.

[BobbinRobin]

I think it's the touchscreen thing that's the main concern for me - I quite often hit things I don't intend to like 'report poster' when just trying to flick through threads. Having more 'Like' buttons dotted through the screens increases the likelihood of accidental 'Liking'. And even when it's a two stage process it's not inconceivable that you'd give the screen a couple of unfortunate stabs then bingo, the Bumsex thread is right there in your FB feed

[blondie74]

So from Justine's post the message is it doesn't matter how much MNetters object to something, if a decision is made to do something to expose MN to a new audience it will be done regardless. If it then results in existing members leaving or not using MN as much it doesn't matter as any new members will bring fresh life to the forum.

Lovely.

[ChippingInLovesChristmasLights]

IMP people who have not been logged into facebook have tried 'liking' a thread and it has still posted to their wall. It is far from failsafe.

It is a small world - this has made it smaller - that is not a good thing.

MN has done what suits them (fair enough, it's a business after all) but people need to step outside their own little world and see that it will stop people posting (who need the support) for fear of being outed. Just because it doesn't affect you and you can't see the harm in it, doesn't make other peoples POV invalid.

[CrispLeCrisp]

It's just so bloody unnecessary and i hate it . Not convinced by Justine (Olivia & Rebecca's) arguments either .