so is anyone's child not predicted to get an A* in gcses

[southeastastra]

cause i've seen lots so far

[Hulababy]

I never did O levels.

But the work is different, every different. It is more spread out throughout the two years and a lot more coursework too.

You have to remember that when you look at a paper now you have an adult head on - so it is easier before you even begin.

But to say exams are easier really does have such a negative impact on students who are working really hard to pass.

Also we have to remember that when we did exams, our elders would have been saying the same thing about their exams being harder. I remember these comments myself. If we believed all this, going back in history, when our grandparents did exams theymust have ben euivalent to degree standard - but where the ^really?" Rose tinted glasses and all that.

[Wastwinsetandpearls]

I spent most of my lunchtime today running a session for some girls who are hoping to get a B grade. They wil need to do much more than simply turn up.

[spongebrainbigpants]

Hula, I was in the 'change over' year from O levels to GCSEs - so did Maths O level and then was the first year to do GCSEs the following year.

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you - GCSEs are far, far easier than O levels were and having friends who teach at university they have said how horrified they are by the standards of students' work that they see now. They often have to do basic courses in writing an essay in the first year before they can get started on their degree course.

It's very sad and I do feel for the kids but we have done them no favours by dumbing down their exams.

[Wastwinsetandpearls]

People are assuming that we only ever teach things that are on the exam syllabus. I am not working in a sausage factory, I teach according to ability. My able students are all working beyond what the exam calls for.

[clumsymum]

Well, there are some O'level papers here and here are some GCSE papers.

I'm off to sort out ds in the bath, but I'm planning to do a comparison in a while.,

See what you think.

[Wastwinsetandpearls]

I teach about 100 year 11s, I do not have any bottom sets. About 20 of my students are targetted an A*, we also set higher targets than many schools.

[saggarmakersbottomknocker]

My dd has just got a hard earned C in Maths. She's predicted a few A*s too. TBH I'll be proud of whatever she gets as she's barely been in school more than 80% during her whole school career.

Maybe when your own children are doing GCSEs you'll understand how offensive it is to hear 'You only have to turn up to get a B'. The exams may well have been more difficult years ago but we didn't have constant exams to endure throughout our whole school lives, a continuous mucking about with the curriculum and a constant moving of the bloody goalposts.

[webwiz]

I don't need to look at some old maths papers and current GCSE papers to know that the new papers will be easier. That doesn't mean that today's 15 and 16 year olds don't have to work to get their exams. The fact that GCSEs are easier is compensated for by the fact that students will now take at least 3 extra subjects.

I'll just do a quick comparison of the two systems and then will add no more because it has all been said sooo many times before.

O levels - 8 subjects examined in usually two exams in the summer of 5th year, you could accumulate knowledge over the two year course and it didn't matter if you spent January looking out of the window so long as you revised properly at the end. If you get some As in with the Bs and Cs everyone thinks you are brilliant.

GCSEs - 11 subjects examined in a multitude of modules, exams, coursework over the two years. If you look out of the window in January you have probably missed what on earth you are doing for the next examined bit. By the time you have finished the course you have probably have taken over 30 exams, agonised over assessed practicals and English coursework essays. You finally come out of it with your piece of paper with your A's and A*'s and everyone says well that was easy.

[Hulababy]

Or parents and our grandparents all said exactly the same things, year on year.

Everyone always think they had it harder.

I have seen loads of exam papers - the joys of invigilating when teaching - plus loads of past O levels and A level papers.

It is simply different.

[saggarmakersbottomknocker]

Absolutely webwiz.

Children these days really can't win. Anything less than an A* and you're 'thick'; if you do get a top mark, it's devalued because people think they're too easy.

[NotAnOtter]

webwiz but for an a level candidate to still be examine in 'bitesize' portions isn't it really a bit - well- easy?

[NotAnOtter]

plus i did a 16+ at o level english which was pre cursor to the gcse

we did the 'coursework' - it went to the examiner

not like now

do the work

teacher marks it

do it again

teacher re marks it

check again

it goes to the examiner

[southeastastra]

i did a 16+ in maths.

this thread was meant to be a support for us with children predicted a B or less

[NotAnOtter]

i still did rubbish!

B was good back in 'them' days!

[NotAnOtter]

my kids snigger at my gce grades!

[Hulababy]

Being examind in phases surely is much more like real life work anyway? Never again do you have to study for 2years and then revise it at the end as a one off.

Also it can be arguedthat it makes the overal 2 year workload much geater than in the past. Then you could get aay with coasting for a year or more and then cram revision at the end. Many peple did this and got good grades as a result.

With phased exams you can't do this. You have to keep on top of the work thoughout the two years.

[webwiz]

Notanotter I wasn't talking about A levels - that's a completely different thread

[NotAnOtter]

sorry webwiz

but still true for gcse

dd did her first modules for bio and chem in 3rd year...

i envisage 10000 re takes before final grade attained

i loathed the lost at sea feeling i had when faced with 8 subjects and two years worth of stuff to revise

you had to 'second guess' what would be on the paper OR revise every last thing and remember it

nowadays you do the term before's work and then forget it

perfect for me who cannot remeber stuff for 5 mins but just not so hard

[webwiz]

When was in 3rd year I spent all my free time reading Jackie magazines and badgering my mum to let me have an asymmetric haircut - I certainly wasn't even thinking about O levels. The modern system discriminates against the "young" whether that is because they have a summer birthday or are immature for their age. DD1 was both and didn't "get" the point of doing stuff before she got quite far into year 11.

[teamcullen]

I dont know if exams are getting easier or not, but I do think the quality of teaching has certainly improved.

My DD is in year 9 and is in top set, but DS is in Y6 and will be lucky to get high level 3s in his SATs. But the things that they learn in school, they actually rememeber and understand.

I was not thick at school but I certainly couldnt tell you the process of photosynthesis at the age of 10 and then remember that process and explain it at a much later date. My kids can dispite the differences of ability on paper.

[NotAnOtter]

webwiz i DO agree entirely on the maturity issue

dd is old - october birthday yet her and her mates are so very far from mature enough to grasp the concept that is gcse!

no matter how i nag

ds -did have the maturity and drive and it stood him in great stead

[NotAnOtter]

dd is year 10

[bellissima]

Naturally MNers have totally brilliant kids who get A*s. It's all to do with much higher levels of intelligence, obviously.

And some MNers are just old bag cynics who think it might also have something to do with the exams . Or as an old time teacher at I think Manchester Grammar School put it a few years ago - "In the old days we used to run the flag up the pole if more than 10% of them got all As - these days we go into mourning if half of them don't - same kind of kids, same teachers...."

[bellissima]

PS If you look hard enough on the internet you can find some University of London GCE O level maths papers from the 1950s and 1960s (very hard to find old O level papers as the exam boards seem to have an interest in claiming that they are all 'lost' although they must be in the archives somewhere). Anyway I have to admit that the one from 1957 is rather harder than the papers I took in the late 70s, but the 1966 paper is equivalent - and MUCH harder than a current maths GCSE paper. Maths/Science is the best comparison basis as with essay based subjects they can ask the same questions but just accept low grade answers. In maths the answers are right or wrong - so they water down the questions.