Secondary school appeal help - change of family circumstances

[9677mumoftwo]

Hello, first time posting here and I wondered if anyone could offer any advice?

Daughter has not been offered first place secondary school and instead has been offered second choice which is feeder school to primary.
We were wanting the first choice as our daughter and us felt the school suited her better, she is wanting to make new friends and have a clean start as she has had some bullying issues at primary school and the same group are going to the second choice offered also. It is also closer and it has a school bus that would pick her up from the end of our road 1 minute walk away.

Second choice that was offered would mean me dropping her off and picking her up everyday which at the time wasn't such a bad thing as younger daughters school was 10 minutes away and friendship groups do change etc.

Since applying, my younger 5 year old daughter fell ill in January with a viral infection and has since then suffered multiple cardiac arrests and is now residing in hospital with permanent brain damage. So our family circumstances have changed massively. Younger daughter, we don't know if/will be able to attend school again and when she eventually comes home will now need 24 hour care. This leaves us in the situation that daughter would have a 10/12 minute walk to a bus stop, then will need to get two busses there and back to the school she has been allocated.

We are wanting to appeal for the first choice school as to be honest I don't know how I will manage to get her to school otherwise. My nerves are on edge at the thought of her leaving early in the dark, walking along quiet roads to the nearest town then getting two busses. Medical needs of younger daughter currently mean she isn't able to be put into a car twice a day to come on the journey with me.

My husband works, albeit on reduced hours whilst I'm staying at the hospital. He normally leaves for work at 7am. His work are fantastic and some flexibility could be accommodated but not enough for a 40 minute round trip to school twice a day everyday.

Our house is fairly new and is in a catchment blackspot so no actual secondary school attached to postcode.

1st choice not offered is 2.00 miles away
2nd choice offered is 4.9 miles away

To be honest I am struggling with the whole thing, I stupidly assumed 1st choice would be offered due to distance. I am now aware I should of let the admissions team know the change in circumstances prior to offer day but to be honest it wasn't in my head to do so with what's going on with younger daughter.
Do you think this is grounds for appeal, its imperative older daughter can get to school and be slightly independent. She has had enough upheaval already, and I just feel I have let her down.

Any opinions/advice would be greatly recieved. Thank you

[Bluevelvetsofa]

Well, you haven’t let her down, because your first preference was the school you and she wanted and it’s not your fault she didn’t get it. I’m assuming the first preference was over subscribed and your distance from school was greater than others, or the places were filled with applicants higher on the admissions criteria.

Surely your daughter meets the criteria for transport to the offered school? It’s more than three miles away and she wasn’t offered a place at the nearest school.

I don’t know whether the authority would be sympathetic to an approach to ask for a place over numbers. Generally I believe, they assume that secondary age pupils can travel independently, but your circumstances are very different and it’s worth a try contacting them.

If transport was offered, would that help? Obviously not from the relationship point of view, but logistically?

[Lougle]

Firstly, I am very sorry to hear that you've had such an awful situation to deal with and I hope that your DD becomes stronger over the next few months.

On what grounds was the first choice school denied?

The first thing to note is that your DD has been offered a place at a school more than 3 miles away. Was school 1 your nearest school? If you applied for your nearest school, then she will be entitled to transport to school. Have you checked what that transport would be with the school transport team?

If you didn't apply for your nearest school, it can get tricky. Generally speaking, transport arrangements aren't a good grounds for appeal and secondary school children are expected to be independent (barring significant SEN) in getting to school.

[9677mumoftwo]

Thank you for replying, the second choice school offered does not offer any transport and relies on normal public buses.

Yes first choice is 2 miles away and on the map the closest secondary school to our house/postcode. We assume she was refused due to over subscription.

[AvaCallanach]

I am very sorry to hear about the awful things that your family has had to manage this year. I would absolutely appeal - you have nothing to lose.

I made an appeal back in '21 based on my daughter's sibling's mental ill health and the impact this had had on our family, her increased risk for depression and anxiety, and her status as a young carer, and therefore her need for stability and continuity where it could be offered. We won.

[Lougle]

@9677mumoftwo

Thank you for replying, the second choice school offered does not offer any transport and relies on normal public buses.

Yes first choice is 2 miles away and on the map the closest secondary school to our house/postcode. We assume she was refused due to over subscription.

Edited

If you applied for your nearest school and were refused on oversubscription grounds, and you were allocated a school more than 3 miles away, they have to provide transport. It may be that it is by way of a bus pass for the public bus, but they must do it.

[Lougle]

I would appeal. The school might have a weak case. The panel may be sympathetic to the upheaval that your family has faced. You can also state the reasons for the choice originally and if you have evidence of emails you've sent the school re. bullying in primary school, that may also help to tip the balance.

I do think that you need to be prepared that it might not be successful though.

[PleaseletitbeSpring]

I'd definitely appeal. You have a very strong case. Your family circumstances have, very sadly, changed and the nearest school is far more appropriate. Just throw everything at the appeal from the bullying to your younger daughter's situation and stress what impact this is having on your older daughter.

[Lougle]

@PleaseletitbeSpring

I'd definitely appeal. You have a very strong case. Your family circumstances have, very sadly, changed and the nearest school is far more appropriate. Just throw everything at the appeal from the bullying to your younger daughter's situation and stress what impact this is having on your older daughter.

Do you sit on appeal panels? I'm interested that you say this is a very strong case. I'm not sure it is as strong as 'very strong'. The main grounds of appeal is transport, which is rarely a good grounds for appeal. A sympathetic panel may allow the appeal, but it isn't a slam dunk.

[Janek]

I believe (do check this) your daughter counts as a young carer, as pp mentioned. This should certainly be mentioned in any appeal (along with the fact that she wasn't a young carer when you applied).

[Headfirstintothewild]

Sorry to hear you are in such a horrendous position.

Are there other schools closer than the allocated school? If so, would you have got a place at them if you had applied?

How long is the journey to the allocated school by public transport?

Does your preferred school have any support for young carers e.g. a young carer lunch club?

[PleaseletitbeSpring]

@Lougle

Do you sit on appeal panels? I'm interested that you say this is a very strong case. I'm not sure it is as strong as 'very strong'. The main grounds of appeal is transport, which is rarely a good grounds for appeal. A sympathetic panel may allow the appeal, but it isn't a slam dunk.

Not actually sitting on the panel, but I’ve had peripheral involvement. We had one family appeal as they had one child with severe SEN and two neonatal deaths. Their DD was given a place on compassionate grounds. Transport rules were ignored for a sad case.

[Lougle]

@PleaseletitbeSpring

Not actually sitting on the panel, but I’ve had peripheral involvement. We had one family appeal as they had one child with severe SEN and two neonatal deaths. Their DD was given a place on compassionate grounds. Transport rules were ignored for a sad case.

'Transport rules' isn't the issue. The difficulty is that the panel has to decide if the prejudice to the school is greater than the prejudice to the applicant by being denied the place. The difficulty, as I see it, is that @9677mumoftwo is largely appealing on the basis of the school being more convenient. That generally isn't a strong grounds for appeal.

If @9677mumoftwo thinks that school 1 would give a much better pastoral support, which would be beneficial because her DD will have to process the life-changing illness of her sister, that's a very different matter. I would encourage her to look at the offering of the two schools in that respect. However, if she focuses on transport/logistics then someone who has a need for the school because of what it offers them in their education would (and should) win, assuming that any places at all could be offered on appeal.

A panel can't just decide that they feel sorry for the appellant.

[steppemum]

The trouble with appeals is that they are not supposed to consider the wider family issues, however devastating.

So I would concentrate of why she needs the place, rather than why it is hard for the family as a whole. (Do give the full picture, just focus on her part of it)

But things like she is a young carer, and she needs stability, away from her bullies, and a local supportive environment due to the stress of the family situation. Her needing to be able to manage the transport without support or help from family do to needs at home.

I would also ask the LA how long the waiting list is for school 1. You can put her on the waiting list now for school 1, and she may come to the top of the list anyway. Waiting lists continue to move quite a lot right up until October, and even then if a child moves house and leaves the school the waiting list will kick in. After September, once school has started, many parents take their kids off the list as they settle happily into another school.
So don't give up hope, you are close to the school, and may well get in from the waiting list. It never hurts to appeal, you have nothing to lose.
I would recommend doing your homework as to how to word that appeal to get the best result.

And I am so sorry to hear about your family. It was so shocking to read your post and hear that you have been through all of that this year.

[steppemum]

@Lougle

'Transport rules' isn't the issue. The difficulty is that the panel has to decide if the prejudice to the school is greater than the prejudice to the applicant by being denied the place. The difficulty, as I see it, is that @9677mumoftwo is largely appealing on the basis of the school being more convenient. That generally isn't a strong grounds for appeal.

If @9677mumoftwo thinks that school 1 would give a much better pastoral support, which would be beneficial because her DD will have to process the life-changing illness of her sister, that's a very different matter. I would encourage her to look at the offering of the two schools in that respect. However, if she focuses on transport/logistics then someone who has a need for the school because of what it offers them in their education would (and should) win, assuming that any places at all could be offered on appeal.

A panel can't just decide that they feel sorry for the appellant.

yes. This is spot on.
You must prove that school 1 is better for your dd

[9677mumoftwo]

There are no other nearer schools, option one is our closest.

The transport to offered school is a 24 minute walk to the local bus station, a 15 minute bus journey to the next bus station, then another 8 minute bus to nearer the school then another 5 minute walk to school gates.

I am awaiting a call back from both schools to discuss the pastoral care/support in place for students, such a young carer support, well-being and mental health and anxiety support.

Option one offers far more extra curricular activities and opportunities for my daughter, which I'm conscious we as a family wont now have the time to offer her whilst supporting our younger daughter, she would miss out on normal life experiences /being a child. They are also a Two counties trust school which strive to provide students with opportunities and experiences to enhance their life/choices.

We did think that it may not be very strong grounds for appeal as everyone has issues going on in life and that's not up to the panel to hear/sympathise with but it was more about the quality of life for my older daughter, the feeling of just being made to get on with it, whilst dealing with all this at home. She has already been through thinking her sister was might die, living away from me whilst I'm at the hospital, being passed around family and friends and relying on them for school pick ups/drop offs, and the feeling moving forward that all our time will be spent helping/dealing with younger daughter and ongoing care. We don't want her to miss out out on what should be an exciting time in her life., its already scary enough moving up to secondary school, without the worry and stress she has endured already. She has had too grow up so much all ready in the last 9 weeks and I just want to ensure as much as I can that school will be an enjoyable time for her, where she will have the support and the opportunities to do what a child should be able to do.

[steppemum]

OP you sound lovely.

I am so sorry that you are going through this.

You do stand a chance with appeal.
But get her on that waiting list and ask the LA how long the list is, and where she is on it.
At 10 or under she will probably get a place anyway.

Appeal for her, and gte advice on what to say.

See if there are any parental support groups around which might be able to help you will appeal. Look on SEN forums, they will be sympathetic to your family too.

Follow Lougle's advice.

[Lougle]

@9677mumoftwo I would focus on this:

"Option one offers far more extra curricular activities and opportunities for my daughter, which I'm conscious we as a family wont now have the time to offer her whilst supporting our younger daughter, she would miss out on normal life experiences /being a child."

You can add the travel, but again, I would do it from the perspective of her mental health rather than your logistics.

Focus on her and the impact on her in your appeal document, even if some of the factors would make your life easier as a side effect. That will help the panel to find in your favour.

[Bluevelvetsofa]

Take the advice from @Lougle, appeal and make sure she’s on the waiting list.

You are a caring and thoughtful mum in a very difficult situation. I wish you the best of luck.

[titchy]

The transport to offered school is a 24 minute walk to the local bus station, a 15 minute bus journey to the next bus station, then another 8 minute bus to nearer the school then another 5 minute walk to school gates.

Given this school is more than 3 miles, rather than a free bus pass (your legal entitlement) you may well be offered (or can argue for) a taxi.

[NeverDropYourMooncup]

Depending upon the actual detail of the admissions policy for school #1, it is possible that on receipt of evidence relating to your youngest's condition that they would be prepared to look at the application again and potentially place her in a higher admissions category on the grounds of exceptional circumstances - that could put her right to the top of the waiting list, at which point you are highly likely to be offered a place shortly after Easter as the annual shifting around of people picking private, moving home and getting places in schools they were on the waiting list for or had successful appeals.

That's not to say don't email tonight (or follow the procedure on school #1's website, to be more accurate) stating that you would like to appeal - and I do think it is a strong argument that the emotional benefit of being close to home would outweigh possibly having 31 to a form group instead of 30 - but it is to say that there are still additional things you can do outside relying upon an appeal panel (and I have seen plenty make a decision in favour of the appellant in respect of similar difficult circumstances, by the way).


And yes, there is also a chance that she could be offered a place just through the normal course of things anyway, depending upon how high up she already is on the waiting list.


So get that appeal going, contact the school admissions with the evidence as well and I hope you have the outcome you need very soon.