SEND and Cambridge schools

[GoldQuoter]

Hi, I'm relocating to Cambridge from abroad in June and DD has ADHD and a SEND provision at her current school, which restricts her class size + provides specialist support in Maths and English + reduced study outcomes.

What do I need to do to be able to have an EHCP in place by September the very latest? And mainly - which Cambridge schools have the best SEND support available without having to go to a special school (she can manage in a 'normie' school with adjustments). Considering Parkside as it's small and Chesterton as it seems to have great facilities.

Thanks!

[SuperSue77]

Just to manage your expectations, I can’t see you having an EHCP in place by September - you’d be lucky to have one by Sept 2026, unless Cambridgeshire LEA is very different to all others in the country.

When will you be back in the UK? I assume you’d need a residence before you could apply, but I’m not sure. I believe the LEA would want to have an EP observe your child in an educational setting which they won’t be able to do until they’re in a school in their local authority area.

Just a diagnosis of ADHD is unlikely to get you an EHCP as the LEA will argue that all
mainstream schools provide a certain level
of support for kids with ADHD without needing specific provision set out in an EHCP.

My son is diagnosed ASD and ADHD and has been on the SEN register at school since he was 7 but was still refused to be assessed for an EHC needs assessment at age 10. You have to fight the LEA every step of the way, EHCPs take most parents years to obtain, and the school will want to see a couple of terms evidence before supporting an application. So in all reality you are years off an EHCP, if you manage to get one at all.

[GoldQuoter]

Thanks @SuperSue77, this is something I've been told also re difficulty obtaining one - but didn't realise it would be quite this long a wait. It's quite shocking - and sad it needs to take this long.

She has an EHCP in place, has had one since grade 1 and I know I could in theory import this same EHCP (the law says this - she doesn't need to go through another assessment if she has one in place) - it's up to the LEA to accept the one we have as it's from abroad and I'm prepared to mount a legal challenge for this to happen.

[Headfirstintothewild]

If you are moving in June, you will not have an EHCP by September.

The EHCP process takes 20 weeks if you don’t have to appeal. LAs often think they don’t have to stick to the timescales, but they are statutory timescales and can be enforced if they are breached. However, many parents do have to appeal, sometimes more than once, and the wait for Tribunal is long.

If DD was moving within England and had an EHCP, the new LA would become responsible for it and the EHCP would continue (although reviewed and potentially amended, reassessed or even ceased - which would get the right of appeal), but as someone new to England you will need to submit an EHCNA request when you move and the 20 week timescale applies. The LA does not have to adhere to the plan (which isn’t an EHCP as that is an English legal document) DD has now from abroad.

[lanthanum]

Without an EHCP to put you at the top of a waiting list, you might need to look at which schools have spaces - which is probably not Parkside or Chesterton. The Cambridgeshire in-year admissions page currrently says "Please note that Cambridgeshire is currently receiving higher levels of In Year school applications than spaces available."

What year group are you looking at?

Restriction on class size is not something I've seen in mainstream - although where there is setting, the lower sets tend to be smaller.

[SilverSilverStreet]

Here’s a link to the Cambridgeshire page on in year admissions. It’s a bit inconsistent but says that applications for September 2024 will be accepted between 2 May and 7 June.

If you scroll down this page you can see acceptance rates for y7 (age 11) entry in September 2024.

[CambridgeCambridge]

I would be very cautious about Chesterton in your position - it's not seen as a great fit for those with ASD at least; it's very grades driven with a lot of testing. Friends live in catchment, and still had to appeal for their child (with ASD; the ECHP was granted during Y6) to get a suitable place elsewhere - they wanted either St Bede's or Impington

[SilverSilverStreet]

Here’s a better link to acceptances for y7.

I thought I’d seen a table of vacancies in all years at Cambridge(shire) schools at some time in the past, but I can’t find it now.

“In year” seems to mean at some time after the general school entry in September for y7/aged 11.

[MarchingFrogs]

@lanthanum

Without an EHCP to put you at the top of a waiting list, you might need to look at which schools have spaces - which is probably not Parkside or Chesterton. The Cambridgeshire in-year admissions page currrently says "Please note that Cambridgeshire is currently receiving higher levels of In Year school applications than spaces available."

What year group are you looking at?

Restriction on class size is not something I've seen in mainstream - although where there is setting, the lower sets tend to be smaller.

An actual EHCP would get a place in the named school without having anything to do with the waiting list process.

[Octavia64]

Parkside is extremely competitive admissions and achievement levels there are high. Students there are mostly children of academics. SEND provision is limited although they did have nurture groups up until a few years ago.

What adjustments does she specifically need?

Most schools will offer extra English and maths to lower attaining students usually via a system of them dropping a language.

Cambridge secondaries are generally oversubscribed as there is a shortage of places; some children in Cambridge in the current admissions round have been given places in Huntingdon.

[Macramepotholder]

Are you a crown servant overseas or forces?

Cambridgeshire might agree to start the process ahead of arrival if you can prove you will be resident in the area, but even so you're looking at a long wait with multiple appeals. If you are forces you will fare better. Other crown servants there are ways of pushing the council to start the process early.

Documents from overseas have no legal standing in England I'm afraid.

[Redlocks28]

The EHCP process is taking about 50 weeks in my LEA-unless Cambridge is massively different, I think you may need to adjust your expectations here.

she can manage in a 'normie' school with adjustments

My LA would read that and probably also say that her needs can be met with Ordinarily Available provision and she doesn’t need an EHCP at all.

What provision does she need that’s additional to and different from?

[Headfirstintothewild]

The EHCP process is taking about 50 weeks in my LEA

Even though LAs don’t think the EHCP timescales apply to them, they are statutory timescales and can be enforced if necessary. Where LAs breach the statutory timescales parents should threaten JR, send a pre-action letter and then pursue JR proceedings if necessary.

[Librarybooker]

I’m a former St Bede’s parent. Our DC not send but I can report that St Bede’s and Impington are the 2 schools that typically take those with send requirements or looked after children. I’m afraid I don’t know what’s needed for an EHCP, I do know that most of the dyslexic and dyspraxic kids didn’t qualify for one, but I don’t know re ADHD.

Re academic schools and send - generally they are better for send. Parkside not great at the moment, I’ve heard.

[Redlocks28]

@Headfirstintothewild

The EHCP process is taking about 50 weeks in my LEA

Even though LAs don’t think the EHCP timescales apply to them, they are statutory timescales and can be enforced if necessary. Where LAs breach the statutory timescales parents should threaten JR, send a pre-action letter and then pursue JR proceedings if necessary.

We have had parents take legal action, involve the MP etc, it has made no difference. They barely even reply much of the time.

I saw there was an LA recently on Twitter who had admitted to getting just 1% of Statutory Assessments completed within the legal 20 week cut off.

[Headfirstintothewild]

JR proceedings work. It isn’t instant but parents can force the LA to act sooner than 50 weeks. The problem is many don’t realise this.

[SENDmam]

Cambridgeshire is sadly in an absolute state for the SAT team. If rumours are to be believed they have about 2 caseworkers out of a possible 12, and if not a lot are off sick, including at management and higher management level. They have got more (pos temporary) caseworkers starting after Easter which will hopefully clear some of the backlog. There is a SEND Cambridgeshire facebook group which is worth joining. A lot of people are out of the statutory timelines and have had to fight to even get the finalised EHCPs actually send out so that we can appeal and go to Tribunal. I really don't mean to be negative but it is really hard work at the moment to get anything. There is nothing in the UK to reduce class sizes for SEND pupils or to prevent them going over the usual 30.

[SENDmam]

And you can apply in advance I believe as I know somebody who did just that, but it still took them a few months to start in a school. An online tutor was allocated whilst they were waiting.

[Redlocks28]

What sort of additional support are you hoping for, @GoldQuoter ? The smaller class sizes isn’t something that would be written into an EHCP.

We have had paperwork sent for a child recently who all professionals agree cannot currently be in a room with more than 5 others as they get too overwhelmed, yet the LA have named us as a mainstream setting meaning they would be in a class of 32.

[Headfirstintothewild]

Smaller class sizes (it would need to be quantified rather than just small/smaller) absolutely can be included in F of an EHCP. Although many parents have to appeal in order to get the wording watertight.

[Redlocks28]

@Headfirstintothewild

Smaller class sizes (it would need to be quantified rather than just small/smaller) absolutely can be included in F of an EHCP. Although many parents have to appeal in order to get the wording watertight.

I haven’t seen a reference to smaller class sizes in an EHCP in the 25+ years I’ve been teaching. I’ve seen plenty of small group work or carefully worded phrases about group sizes though where special is being suggested.

What sort of quantified numbers for class sizes have you seen included, can I ask?

[Headfirstintothewild]

@Redlocks28

I haven’t seen a reference to smaller class sizes in an EHCP in the 25+ years I’ve been teaching. I’ve seen plenty of small group work or carefully worded phrases about group sizes though where special is being suggested.

What sort of quantified numbers for class sizes have you seen included, can I ask?

It isn’t rare, but often takes an appeal to get the necessary quantification. The sizes I have supported parents to get quantified range from 3-22. Obviously the lower end would be delivered in a SS or via an AP, but the higher sizes can be delivered in independent MS (or for primary age DC in smaller schools). I have also seen 25 quantified which was met in a very small state secondary.

The small group work phrasing you have seen is written in poor EHCPs. It is too woolly to be enforced.

[Redlocks28]

I wonder how mainstream schools organise it from a funding view if a class size of 22 or 25 was specified and the child moved to a larger school. We struggle massively if our classes aren’t all at 30 to fund a teacher per class-our budget just doesn’t have any wriggle room.

[Headfirstintothewild]

@Redlocks28 the 22s were/are in independent MS (or in small state primary where it isn’t so uncommon to have tiny classes compared to state secondary MS).

The 25 I have seen was in a state secondary MS that has a PAN of 50.

[Redlocks28]

@Headfirstintothewild

@Redlocks28 the 22s were/are in independent MS (or in small state primary where it isn’t so uncommon to have tiny classes compared to state secondary MS).

The 25 I have seen was in a state secondary MS that has a PAN of 50.

I can see where it would work in those specific circumstances, but what if the child moved schools/LA-would that provision have to stand if that is what the child is deemed to require?

[Headfirstintothewild]

@Redlocks28

I can see where it would work in those specific circumstances, but what if the child moved schools/LA-would that provision have to stand if that is what the child is deemed to require?

SEP is detailed, specified and quantified in F because a child reasonably requires said provision. Moving LAs wouldn’t change their needs or the SEP they require. Similar for moving schools. If a pupil with an EHCP moves LA the new LA becomes legally responsible for the EHCP. Then the new LA reviews the EHCP and potentially amends, reassess or cease to maintain - although parents would have the right of appeal.