Grey Coat Hospital School Language Spaces

[Mianoos]

Hiya, wondering if anyone can give me an insight to what it means to take up the languages spaces in Grey Coat Hospital School? Thank you.

[Hersetta427]

Nothing other than a place at the school.

[South80s]

If you get offered a language place it means you're pretty much guaranteed a place - regardless of distance from the school or religious affiliation - as long as you then put the school first on your preference list. The language place pupils are all in one class together, so generally the discipline and standards in that class are high as well. I'm pretty sure the language students also must take two languages at GCSE and they also take German and Spanish from Year 7 (rather than French and Spanish which is the other option - presumably as it's two different language families).

[Binteee]

@South80s

If you get offered a language place it means you're pretty much guaranteed a place - regardless of distance from the school or religious affiliation - as long as you then put the school first on your preference list. The language place pupils are all in one class together, so generally the discipline and standards in that class are high as well. I'm pretty sure the language students also must take two languages at GCSE and they also take German and Spanish from Year 7 (rather than French and Spanish which is the other option - presumably as it's two different language families).

Edited

I’m not OP but thanks for this! I’m planning to have my DD take the language exam next year and I didn’t know any of this information. I thought they literally just received a spot and that was it.

[MarchingFrogs]

@South80s

If you get offered a language place it means you're pretty much guaranteed a place - regardless of distance from the school or religious affiliation - as long as you then put the school first on your preference list. The language place pupils are all in one class together, so generally the discipline and standards in that class are high as well. I'm pretty sure the language students also must take two languages at GCSE and they also take German and Spanish from Year 7 (rather than French and Spanish which is the other option - presumably as it's two different language families).

Edited

Having just had a look at the admissions policy out of sheer idle curiosity, how do they 'populate' the rest of the form that the language aptitude girls are put in? Or is it a completely separate group of 15 or fewer pupils?

[South80s]

It's not a separate class, and it's the same size overall as the others - around 28-29 girls. It's an interesting question about how they populate it and I'm not sure! You probably read about the banding test - everyone applying, including those with language places, has to take the banding test. They then take a split across the year of 25% from band 1, 50% from band 2 and 25% from the bottom band. This ensures a fully 'comprehensive' intake.

My daughter got a language place, but the rest of the form who aren't language girls (roughly 13 or 14 girls) seems to be a mix of ability (although a few v smart ones who didn't get a language place but who I know, from speaking to the parents, got scholarships to indies etc so clearly very bright). Since they never divulge the banding results, I'm not sure you'd ever know how they really split the classes. From year 8 they're all streamed anyway in the core subjects so at that point the ability spread becomes more obvious.

[DandelionDahlia]

When my daughter was in Year 6 a couple of years ago, I asked the school this question.

I got a very speedy and polite email reply from the school saying that a language place now only gave a place at the school. No difference to the child’s experience once there.

Not a separate form.

So I would check with them because I think there is a recent change.

[Londoneer]

Hey Mianoos (and others). My DD is at GCHS and got in via a language place. I am reminded reading this thread that some people don’t separate out opinions (often incorrect) from fact so please let me help. If they get offered a language place all 15 go into the same class with another 15 girls who arrived by the normal complicated arrangements. As the language aptitude test is really just a covert aptitude test, that class tends to have a higher percentage of able girls so yes, is often quite an academic environment with high achievers. All girls in the school do two languages in years 7-9 (all Spanish, half allocated to German, the other half to French). The ‘language’ class alternates: one year it’s in the German stream, one year they’re in the French stream. I put ‘language’ in brackets because once they are there, they are there, there is no difference and no pressure to keep up with languages any more than any other girl. Every girl has to take at least one one language GCSE. Some take two, some take three (with Latin). There are no first and second class citizens so I don’t think there are any more in my DD’s class taking two/three than any other class. As you’d expect from a higher proportion of high achievers in one class, her class over represents in the science, English and maths top sets and if that’s the way they find themselves inclined, the school supports that, with no language pressure. Conversely, girls in the ‘non’ language classes are equally pushed/inspired in languages and all subjects. Not everyone knows who did and didn’t get a language place anyway, once they move past Yr7, they can’t remember. It’s just a way in for more able girls who live at a distance and/or aren’t churchgoers. Go for it, she has nothing to lose.

[Londoneer]

Oh and because of an administrative mix up way back when, they DID accidentally let me know the banding make-up (too complicated to explain how that happened). So the 15 language girls are all Band 1 (top 25%) and the remainder of their class are Band 2 (middle 50% -that’s Bands 2 & 3 in some schools). All of the other classes have a liberal sprinkling of every band, so from all abilities. It doesn’t matter a fig as from Yr9 they get put into sets so what class they’re in is fairly immaterial. The school must take 25% from bands 1 and 3 and 50% from Band 2, plus the languages girls who are all Band 1, subtly skewing their intake.

[Binteee]

@Londoneer

Oh and because of an administrative mix up way back when, they DID accidentally let me know the banding make-up (too complicated to explain how that happened). So the 15 language girls are all Band 1 (top 25%) and the remainder of their class are Band 2 (middle 50% -that’s Bands 2 & 3 in some schools). All of the other classes have a liberal sprinkling of every band, so from all abilities. It doesn’t matter a fig as from Yr9 they get put into sets so what class they’re in is fairly immaterial. The school must take 25% from bands 1 and 3 and 50% from Band 2, plus the languages girls who are all Band 1, subtly skewing their intake.

Thanks so much for your messages. These are very helpful for me, as I'm planning to have my daughter sit the language exam next year. My concern is that we're about 4 miles north of the school. The commute is fairly long, but direct. I wonder if my daughter be unlikely to have any friends nearby or between language and church spots, she may not be so far off on her own?

[TizerorFizz]

@Binteee And others: How do DDs sit the language test when they haven’t done a MFL at primary school? What chance have they got?

My DD went to a state primary with no MFL provision. She started French at her independent school min y7 and the teacher said she was the only one who had no previous MFL exposure. By y8 she was top in her MFL exams. She had also started Italian. Obviously she would never have been able to take an entry test in a MFL. She studied both MFLs at degree level and converted to law. Linguists are usually bright but I don’t see how your school would have spotted her. Just curious.

[TizerorFizz]

@Londoneer I meant to ask you too. How can they spot a linguist who has never had a chance to show any talent?

[MarchingFrogs]

@TizerorFizz

@Londoneer I meant to ask you too. How can they spot a linguist who has never had a chance to show any talent?

But that is what an aptitude test is designed to do (and the school says that it is testing for aptitude, not ability, therefore that is what it must do - unless it is confident that it is so special, that compliance with the Admissions Code is not something that it should worry about overmuch).

[TizerorFizz]

How might you find out if your DD has an aptitude if they have never done any MFL? Why would you go in for the test? Seems an odd selection criteria to me. Best to stream after y7.

[Araminta1003]

@TizerorFizz - my DD is gifted in languages, music and maths. For grammar entry, we never had to practise verbal reasoning. She just got a 100 per cent like that. She also has a photographic memory. I suspect you can easily test for it. Combo of hearing languages and it going straight in. Just like you can test natural musical ability. Wilsons now have music places, for example.

[reabies]

@TizerorFizz hi, I went to GCH on a language place but nearly 20 years ago now, and my entrance exam was in Martian, ie a made up language that they used to I guess see if we could spot patterns and reason our way through it even though it wasn't a real language and no one had seen it before.

Unsure if they'd still do something like that but I found it interesting at the time!

[TizerorFizz]

@Araminta1003 Why would you enter a voluntary MFL test if you had no idea dc might be good at MFL? Grammar school tests don’t include MFL so you are tested on core curriculum taught every day plus verbal reasoning. My dd did verbal reasoning for a grammar test but my question is, with an optional entry test (assuming it is optional) how would you know how to choose it? I would have assumed for DD it was a waste of time as she had not been to a prep. I would have been totally wrong but unless all dc do the aptitude test, how do parents know dc should be entered?

[TizerorFizz]

@reabies How did your parents decide to enter you for the test? That’s what I’m asking. Why did they think you were suitable? Had you previous exposure to another language?

Most tests I’ve seen are for music, art, sport, drama, etc. All attributes a child has demonstrated to make parents think an additional test or evaluation is worth it. If you simply don’t know dc has a MFL aptitude, why would you apply for the test?

[OhCrumbsWhereNow]

@TizerorFizz

@Araminta1003 Why would you enter a voluntary MFL test if you had no idea dc might be good at MFL? Grammar school tests don’t include MFL so you are tested on core curriculum taught every day plus verbal reasoning. My dd did verbal reasoning for a grammar test but my question is, with an optional entry test (assuming it is optional) how would you know how to choose it? I would have assumed for DD it was a waste of time as she had not been to a prep. I would have been totally wrong but unless all dc do the aptitude test, how do parents know dc should be entered?

Knowing lots of kids at GCH, they were entered for the test as a kind of lottery ticket as if you get one of the aptitude places then it bypasses the church attendance and distance criteria.

We considered it for DD - who is severely dyslexic to the point that she dropped Languages at the end of Y8 - on the basis that she's extremely good at pattern recognition in CAT tests and so might actually score well in something like this which doesn't require any actual MFL knowledge.

In the end we didn't do it because I was concerned that if she got a place that way then they might expect her to take languages for GCSE and I already knew that was going to be an issue!

[Araminta1003]

@TizerorFizz - well these days it is easier. You could easily sign your DC up to a DuoLingo trial and see if they like it? Then get them to practise a cross section of different languages from Mandarin, to German, to Russian, French etc.

I knew my DC would be good at languages because I did MML before doing Law. And their brains are like mine - very good memory, natural verbal reasoning and logic aptitude, great aural skills (better than mine because all do music to a high level). They could just do Latin as well. However, they are also good at Maths at the early stages up to A level (all of them). Those who were not perfect at non verbal then stagnate at a certain point in Maths.

The question is not just are they naturally good at it. The question is more are they going to be passionate about it and want to do it long term. Especially in this country, MML is not properly emphasised in the education system.

So if I were a parent passionate about MML and on the Victoria train line, yes I would do it if I had a bright child who is a keen reader, likes words etc and can spot patterns easily.

What I do not know is if most of those places end up going to bilingual children as they are more likely to have the natural aptitude, having been exposed from birth. The state schools won’t be allowed to test for acquired knowledge just like Wilsons cannot test based on those who have already passed their Grade 8 age 10. However, whether those bilingual kids and Grade 8s also have the natural aptitude - probably more likely. Especially on the music front because children tend to do what they are naturally good at.

[Araminta1003]

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - I have a close friends with a very dyslexic child who is acing Mandarin! I think the pictographic language really helps.

The language aptitude tests are used in the Security Services. They must work.

[OhCrumbsWhereNow]

@Araminta1003

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - I have a close friends with a very dyslexic child who is acing Mandarin! I think the pictographic language really helps.

The language aptitude tests are used in the Security Services. They must work.

That's really interesting. I have often wondered if she'd be better at something pictographic.

But DD does Music very seriously and finds it impossible to read sheet music at speed and so has to do it all by ear. So I suspect if notation is a problem then Mandarin may fall into that.

[TizerorFizz]

@Araminta1003 DH is a civil and structural engineer and I failed French O level twice. We would not have prepped in the way you suggest as we are both MFL illiterates. Sadly. It seems you have to gear up for this. I did know DD could mimic language (American!) but we never thought for a minute she should do MFLs at uni or now be a barrister. I guess I was just interested in why people like us might even think of MFL. DH would have thought she would be better at maths! I suspect you are right about bi lingual dc who don’t get screened out of anything.

[Araminta1003]

@TizerorFizz - did your DD score very highly on verbal reasoning type tests?

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - it is frustrating. If your DD is that able at Music and has such an excellent aural memory, I bet she could learn languages easily, just by ear rather than having to write stuff down. So she could learn to speak several languages. It just so happens that our MML testing is mainly writing based. In my opinion, Music is also a form of language and so is Maths.

Let’s hope that in the future the technological advances will be such that they can understand the workings of different types of brain and that the education is then tailored to the correct learning style for that type of brain.

[Binteee]

@TizerorFizz

How might you find out if your DD has an aptitude if they have never done any MFL? Why would you go in for the test? Seems an odd selection criteria to me. Best to stream after y7.

My DD does (very minimal) Spanish at her primary. However, she really seems to have a knack for it and is very interested in studying languages (does multiple in Duolingo, etc.). She's generally bright as well, so it seems like it's worth a shot to give it a go. Her sister is also bright, but I wouldn't say she has a particular knack or interest in languages, so I wouldn't put her forward for the test.

[TizerorFizz]

@Araminta1003 Yes. She got 140/141 in the Bucks test back in the day. Not that her school thought she was bright. DD was also decent enough at music. She sight reads for her choir now. It’s just hugely difficult to work out what they can do when they haven’t had a chance. If she has sc, they will have a chance! Not everyone can do MFLs at a grammar school either. Even some high scoring dc run a mile.