Anyone else struggling with whether independent is financially feasible?

[pembelimum]

DS has been offered a secondary place at a selective London independent school. I put him in for the 11+ in the autumn following a bit of a panic after lockdown disruption to end of year 5 and because going into year 6 he seemed quite unhappy in his state primary - which is the main feeder (same site and overall principal) for the local secondary where he’s sure to get a place. Seems he was being picked on for not having a mobile phone/games console like some of the other kids and was getting called ‘swot’ and ‘nerd’. He’s pretty bright and curious but I think he really feels he has to hide it currently. He’s very quiet during his online lessons and seems reluctant to put the camera on or contribute even though I know he’s interested in the subjects. In short, I’m worried local secondary is going to be hard for him. I went to a state school where it wasn’t cool to be clever and had a pretty awful time. I’d really love to be able to avoid that for him. DH is on quite a low income - which has turned into almost no income since the start of the pandemic. I’m in a professional job with a good salary (so probably just put of bursary territory) and so could just afford the fees (though with next to nothing leftover). We also have a younger child who will start secondary in 5 years (when DS will start sixth form) and who has additional learning needs. I think I could just afford the independent for my DS, and from what I know of the school I think he’d absolutely love it, but can’t see myself being able to do it for both of them when younger sibling starts secondary. My DM has offered to help out when we get to that point but I’m nervous about relying on that and wonder whether she has underestimated how much she’ll need for her retirement. I’m really struggling to decide whether to accept the place or not. I want it so much for DS but can’t quite see how I can make it feasible.

[frontiersback]

Onwards and Upward pembelimum all the very best to you and your family!

[pembelimum]

Thanks @frontiersback for asking. Still wish it were doable but feel a lot better. I’ve been dreaming about it a lot but much less anxious since I’ve finally made the decision. Glad you feel relieved too.
@Jonticlair I know what you mean about sadness even though it’s the right decision.
I love JackieWeaver’s suggestion on fun holidays. Have resolved to sort the kids passports so we can try to travel when it becomes possible.

[JackieWeaver4PrimeMinister]

In your position I'd hands down do state school, and use the "leftover" cash to support DC into a really fun club he might like, or tutoring and reassess after year 7. School is important but so is having enough leftover so that parents aren't stressed, you can have fun experiences in holidays etc.

[frontiersback]

How are you feeling today OP?

I am feeling very good about it all.

We have an excellent state school option.

We are really looking forward to it now.

Jonitclair I feel more relief than sadness now, we have a great kid. It really is the sensible choice but the stress of the money would be a very negative and the entire selection process is an anxious one.

[Jonticlair]

We have done the same thing you OP, turned down a top ten indie for my elder DC because we are uncertain we can fund it for both children (well, we could fund it, but it would be years of stress and we had to weigh how that would’ve impacted us all). It is the sensible choice, but I do feel really sad about it.

[thetell]

@pembelimum he is doing really well thank you!

[pembelimum]

@thetell I’m so sorry for your friend and her husband. I hope he’s recovered.

[thetell]

@pembelimum One of my close friends was in a similar situation to you and went private - husband ended up having a breakdown and being off work for months and it was triggered by the enormous financial worry, and they ended up having to sell their house to keep the children in the schools as they were settled by then. Unless you can afford it comfortably it really is a very heavy burden to carry with no real guarantee of it being worth it. Save for your pensions, university and educational holidays and tutoring - you will end up with just as happy a life for your children.

[pembelimum]

Thanks @frontiersback it’s really comforting to know it’s not just us. Which of course it isn’t as loads must be in exactly the same position given it’s a minority that can afford it without too much struggle. DS got offered a scholarship too which makes me feel even guiltier for turning it down. I’m going to let myself wallow today and then try to brush it off and look forward with some perspective. My DH is very relieved so that’s a silver lining.
All the best to you and your child too!

[frontiersback]

Actually you are totally entitled to wallow in the sadness and unfairness but give yourself a couple of days and then get right back into thinking and backing yourself that you have made the right decision for your family. All the very best!

[frontiersback]

OP we are about to turn down a fabulous school my child's dream and turn down a fantastic scholarship.

I feel you.

But I decided I did not want to live always so worried about finances and didn't want it to lead to further stress.

But you have to back your child to do well.

Don't let the ridiculous unfairness of private / state and the sheer competition of it get you down.

Expect your kid to do brilliantly where they go.

Let's face it most of us go State. Maybe you can save up for Sixth form?

[pembelimum]

Thanks all. We turned the offers from the independent schools down. Seems like the impact on our finances and family would be greater than we can contemplate at the moment. I’ve cried with the unfairness of it all.

[Pencilsandpaper]

Exactly. There are alot of hidden extras they don't tell people about. Running about to sports events all over the county , overnight trips away, costumes for school plays and events.

[teachocolate]

There are hidden fees such as uniform/shoes(£1000 you often needs three pairs of sports shoes), sports equipment(£200), extra curriculum(for example music lesson £1500 as many children do), school coach(£1500), lunch(£1000), trip(£1000), pocket money, smartphone, iPad/laptop etc... It would be better to add another £5,000 to calculate your budget.

[Pencilsandpaper]

If you are having doubts now about the private school fees these aren't going to go away. Fees will only keep going up over the years....
Also there is a misconception that in private schools kids don't get picked on.
Id give the state option a go first , if your son really dislikes it then reconsider the private school.

[WombatChocolate]

Bursary applications need to be made ahead of applying to the school/offers being received.

The school will know it’s pot of money for scholarships and bursaries and offers have now been made for the coming September entry. To be honest, it’s too late for the coming September.

Schools usually have hardship funds and if someone’s circumstances change whilst they are at the school, they will look to spread fees over a longer period and /or give a temporary bursary ...usually up to the end of a phase of education ..ie up to the end of GCSEs.

This is the wrong time to start thinking about bursaries though because earlier in Feb was offers time, and the bursary offers go out at the same time. There is a time schedule used by schools because bursary pots are not unlimited, more a people apply than there is money and so applicants have to meet the deadline so the school can look at all the applicants and decide who to offer what to...usually at the same time as the offer.

[KihoBebiluPute]

Given that you can just about afford it with just one salary I would totally go for it in your position. Your DH isn't going to be low/no income for ever, once covid has passed surely he can ramp up his earnings to get some wiggle room back into the balance sheet. Whatever amount he can boost his earnings by, use half towards your current living and leisure costs, and the other half save it towards future fee increases and towards the 2 year overlap (and 2 years is not that long) when there are 2 lots of fees. You might well qualify for bursary assistance during those 2 years - or its perfectly possible that DC1 may choose to go to a non-private sixth form college.

[sprongle1]

Does the school (or another you'd consider) do a 13+ entry? Could you save for two years and send you child then? Also, that way your second child wouldn't reach year 9 until the eldest had left.
I would certainly ask re bursaries. Round here they talk about not having second homes, more than 2 cars or multiple holidays abroad in some schools so I'd say you might get a small amount, especially if you say the alternative is to wait until year 9.

[notoffee]

WombatChocolate speaks a lot of sense.

We have private school offers but the more I think about it the more I realise we just can't stomach the costs. Such a shame as the independent seems so perfect and so special but I would be worried we would have heart attacks from the stress.

[ladybirdlamp]

No advice OP but just to say I can relate to your post, although my kids are younger.

I had a very similar experience to you in that I went to a state secondary where it wasn't cool to be clever or work hard and I desperately don't want that for my DDs. I also work in an industry where the vast majority of people at my level went to a private school.

There does seem to be a huge variation though in secondary state provision.

[needanewhoover]

My experience is that there is a real mix of incomes whilst also there definitely being a strata of higher earners. I would say a lot of GPs cough up where we are.

We had affordability issues after a few years as mainly only one salary now and filled in bursary forms and negotiated with them what we could afford. It wasn't a straight no way on their side. 10% wasn't going to make any difference to us! So I wouldn't take it as read that you aren't eligible. It really depends... but I would say it's worth exploring based on what you've said.

[WombatChocolate]

The worries about feeling left out for not going on yearly ski holidays, are often trotted out and not a big concern really. Lots will, but lots won’t too.

Those who live in a standard family home and have a standard middle class lifestyle which covers some holidays (not necessarily fancy) some children’s activities which cost, and can replace cars and household items when needed without too much concern, plus able to join in socially with some days out which might cost are fine. Most adults and children associated with these schools aren’t looking to judge and cut people out if they don’t have luxury lifestyles.

But, if you can’t afford to participate at all, the. I think things can be difficult. So a parent who can never go for a coffee or lunch with other mums due to cost, or whose child cannot go to a birthday party because of taking a present, or who can’t have friends over ever, or who can’t go any any of the more basic school trips will struggle. This is often the case in state schools too. It’s no good cutting things so tight that social interaction isn’t possible, but you do t have to be living a luxury lifestyle to go or feel perfectly at home with the kids and families.....and this is especially so I think if you are coming from an educated background, where you have high self esteem based on your abilities and not just your wealth. When you and your kids value themselves because of who they are and what they can do, not just what they have, it really comes across to to others and often speaks volumes much more loudly than what you have in material terms.

[jabberywockery]

@pembelimum it sounds like it may require a real financial sacrifice for you as a family. Ultimately only you know whether this is worth it or not. Honestly though, in this situation, I think I'd be inclined give the state school a chance. Secondary is a much bigger pond and hopefully if the school is half decent he'll find his niche. It seems to me that academic achievement is celebrated at most London state schools these days. If things don't work out, maybe you could still move to a less selective independent down the line or to the same selective school at 13+ if they're willing to offer a place - to reduce the overall financial burden. You could explain the situation and ask them about it now so you know if it would be an option? Or consider moving house if that's an option. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[WombatChocolate]

If you’re worried before you start, that should be a big alarm bell.

Fees typically rise 3-5% per year and you have to compound that when you do the calculations. Most salaries are not rising at that rate, so unless you’re in for big pay rises, it will get harder, not easier.

The reality, is the vast vast majority if the population can’t afford this, and you probably are in that category.

Those on lower (relative to those paying fees, not the population overall) who afford it off a salary of under £80k, are often managing whilst not having a mortgage or housing costs, just 1 child and/or grandparent or bursary help, unless they are living in much much cheaper areas of the country where fees are significantly lower.

There is a difference between stretching yourself, but you can still afford a cheapest holiday, manage to replace the boiler or car, and your child can do things like go to birthday parties with presents, go on school day trips which cost extra, buy the uniform and perhaps go on the odd residential cheaper school trip and the alternative. The alernative stretching yourself for some people means no holidays for 5 years, living in fear of a big bill like the need for a boiler, the house going to rack no ruin and an inability to join in socially with anything due to costs. Some people do out themselves in this position too.

I too wouldn’t rely on a GP saying they will help out unless you’ve had detailed numbers conversations. They might not grasp the size of the fees or have worked out their own finances. Without involving an accountant who can say that yes, they can afford X amount without impinging their own lifestyle, including paying for care if it’s needed, it’s not viable to rely on GP, so you do have to be able to fund 2 yourself. And you do have to operate on the basis you have 2 kids not just 1.

Lots of people get to this point. They look and love what they see. They knew it would be marginal, but having looked and seen, it’s then hard to walk away....but after some serious calculations, loads do this every year because they realise independent senior education is a truly luxury product, that they simply cannot afford. It’s a pipe dream for lots and some talk of bursaries and it being more affordable than people think and families in low incomes being there, draws them into looking, but in reality it’s not affordable for the vast majority.

[Stokey]

@XelaM £175-200k was the cost of the school over 7 years not what the OP's income needs to be. She said it was a selective London school so would assume the fees are £6-7k a term.