Changing schools after only 1 month in year 7?

[ChimpanzeesAreFunny]

Hi all,

Back in March we were offered our 6th choice school. We didn’t really want it and didn’t expect to get it but it was our back-up on-the-doorstep OFSTED unsatisfactory School. However, it was an unlucky year for us and we ended up with it.
After several appeals to all other schools on the list and several we didn’t even apply to we didn’t get anywhere and we’re stuck with 6th choice. DD really didn’t want to go but she had to and after some persuasion she accepted it might be alright and what people were saying about the place was exaggerated.

DD started there in September. Earlier today we got a phone call from one of the schools we are on the waiting list for saying a place had become available. We have 10 working days to accept the place (ie we have to accept by 20th October). Theoretically this means that if we accept then DD would probably start after half term.
DD has settled at 6th choice and says it’s ok. DD seems to like her form bubble and the lessons.There are certain things DD doesn’t like about it and seems to complain a lot about teachers and people messing about in lessons. (Don’t know whether this is just a normal secondary school complaint?) There have already been a few incidents at the school regarding bullying (thankfully not DD) and although the school might be ok right now, it’s the long term - GCSEs - that concern me the most. The school offers mostly BTEC, only double science, no language or humanities unless you get X mark in year 9 tests, and max number of GCSEs they can take is 7 and that’s only if you don’t take BTECs.

The school that has offered a place isn’t the best results wise and is OFSTED RI but offers a better GCSE range and extra-curricular that DD is interested in. They also do a lot more in school eg trips and a range of clubs unlike our 6th choice. There are a couple of children from DDs primary who ended up there and from what their parents are saying (some who previously had DC in our 6th choice) low level disruption is rare, teachers are more supportive of pupils and the whole school has a “can do” ethos. Disadvantage is that DD will have to get 2 busses to offered school.

Personally, me and DH are in favour of moving DD. Plus moving DD means DS will get a place next year.
DD unsure but I’m not getting a straight answer out of her at the minute as to why - might be because she’s settled in or doesn’t want to be new again or might be because of the journey? I don’t know.

Would you accept the place? Or it is to late now? Would you just say “this is for the best so just go” or spend the next week trying to convince her or just let her stay where she’s at if she’s kind of happy with it?

[Bvop]

Get her in now so she’s settled in the right sets from the start. It’s less daunting to have a quick start, and when she returns after half term she’ll already feel familiar with the school.

So pleased that it’s worked out for you and your dd

[Meredusoleil]

I personally would rather my dd was setted from the off and put in the right ability set, rather than have the school just 'guesstimate' and then potentially have to move her around again. Unless I was sure the data given from Year 6 would be sufficient for them to make the right decision without testing her themselves!

Also, starting before half term will give her a week to get to grips with the layout of the school and follow the timetable a bit, before she hits the ground running after half term.

If it wasn't for the assessments, I would have said you might as well wait and start her off properly after half term.

Will it be too late for her to do the assessments after half term, as they need time to mark them and agree on the sets?

[ChimpanzeesAreFunny]

We had our little visit today. Personally I was very impressed. We went this afternoon on the bus so DD could see the bus route. The head and head of year 7 were lovely, answered all questions I asked, were totally honest about the successes and short comings of the school and DD even asked questions!
The head had organised for the form group DD would be in to have a visit off us. We couldn't go in the class (we had to stand at the door) but when the head entered all the kids stood up! I didn't realise this was still a thing that happened! She asked the class to name their favourite and least favourite thing about school and they did. I think this really helped DD, especially as some of them were brutally honest.

We walked home through the park and I didn't even mention the visit talking about trees and birds and anything I could think of that wasn't the school visit and suddenly DD said, "I want to go to that school". She loved the visit, says its nicer than her current school, the teachers she spoke to are nicer, the lessons looked better because no one was messing around and they were all listening and the whole place just seems better. She also likes the fact they wear a blazer. (Funny the things they seem to think make a place better haha). Looks like we're onto a winner!

Anyways, I have one final question.
The school said she can start at some point this week if she wants (probably not going to happen because DD wants to say goodbye to her friends first and I need to buy her a uniform), the other options are start on monday or start after 1/2 term. When I accept the place I have to give them the date/day she will be starting as well.

The head of year 7 said that next week year 7 were having assessments so they could be setted for maths and english (currently they are in form groups). If DD started monday she would have to do the assessments. On one hand I think this is a good thing, on the other I don't really want her first experience of a new school to be the assessments.

If DD starts after 1/2 term she will have missed the assessments and will be setted based on her current schools opinions or placed in one of the middle sets until they get to know her better.

Is it best to do the assessments and be setted properly? Or miss them out, end up in the set they think is the most suitable, but have a nice first day?

[Dahlietta]

I think it's a really good sign that they welcomed you coming to look round, OP. I hope it goes well!

[FlatterNow]

OP, just to add something about your DD being new again and feeling anxious - this year of all years it seems likely that friendship groups will take a while to establish. Year 7 DS told me yesterday that it was the first day they'd had everyone in class due to self-isolating etc. Given that people are going to be going in and out a lot more this term your DD may feel less conspicuous.

[mmmmmmcheeeesssseeee]

Glad you’ve managed to make progress OP. The bus and walking distance seem reasonable.
From what you’ve said I definitely would not hold I out for another school. There doesn’t seem to be a guarantee and you don’t want to miss the opportunity.
It’s excellent you managed to get to visit the school. Hopefully your DD will like it again and you can get her to move. I’d be interested to know whether you go for the place or not so do let us know 🙂

@Pumpkinnose a lot about choosig a secondary school is talking to other parents, reading OFSTED reports, going past past the school when its going home time to look at behaviour, looking at progress and attainment scores to make sure the school is actually helping pupils make progress and a lot of the time just gut feeling. Most people will know if their local school has gang problems because of the area they live in.
Based on the fact the OP could put 6 choices down they are probably in a city where you just have to put the ones you like down with a banker and hope you don’t get the banker sometimes.

[Pumpkinnose]

I’ve read this thread with interest. Firstly I’m
Amazed that you’ve got so many potential secondary schools in close proximity. Round here catchments are tiny!

But as a primary school age parent can you please tell me how you know so much about these schools? Is it just from Ofsted? How do I really find out about whether there’s gangs/knife issues/uninspiring teachers? With online open evening videos it’s virtually impossible. Help!!

[unmarkedbythat]

I submitted an in year transfer request for my year 7 son last week. There is no point in any of us pretending that we want to remain at the school he has started at and the sooner he can move to another, the better. If you can get your DD on board with moving, do it.

[keziahthecat]

Take the place. I have worked at ofsted unsatisfactory schools and they are (often) not nice places to be.

[ChimpanzeesAreFunny]

We did look round it last year. DD liked it but not as much as the first 5. But like I said, we had to make a decision on whether to put a “we will definitely get a place” down or another border line one.

Discussed with DD last night about having another look round if they would let us and she agreed. I also got her to get in touch with the DC who went to offered school from her primary. She told me they are saying they like it which has made her a bit more happy about potentially going there.

I contacted the offered school about half hour ago to see if we could go and have another look, they actually said yes - which suprised me. Obviously all the rules about masks ect have to be followed, we aren’t allowed to go in any classrooms (but can look through the windows) or be in the corridors when lessons change over and they were very specific about what time we could arrive to avoid break time because of social distancing, but we are allowed to meet the head and the head of year 7 for Q&A session and tour of the school. I was pleasantly surprised (was expecting big no) and I’ve taken them up on the offer.

Fingers crossed they give DD the right answers and persuade her. I think another look will definitely make all the difference because she definitely liked it more than the school she’s at now. I definately want to move her sooner rather than later if I can

[ittakes2]

6th choice? My suggestion is ask if it’s possible for her to do a trial day at new school. Due to covid it might not be. But her anxious is likely because it’s an unknown while current school she is familiar with.
But if push comes to shove I would take the place. I have two teens who have been to three schools - neither have mentioned low level disruption or bullying in the last 3 years since they started high school. Plus better gcse range is a big plus. My son’s school has v limited GCSEs and it was literally toss a coin for his last choice as he was not keen on his final options. Which is a bit sad as he has to study it intensely for 3 years.

[RedskyAtnight]

Based on your update, I'd definitely go down the moving DD asap approach then. Big it up to DD (did she visit the school previously?) - maybe get her to talk to her friends that are already there. No reason to think that she won't be able to settle very quickly in a new school; there will certainly be plenty of other Year 7s also trying to find their feet.

[Frazzled2207]

It is a tough one but assuming dd is willing I would move yes as it seems chances of a better option coming along are small.

I think it’s awful that depending on where you live there can sometimes be no good options.
We are faced with probably moving house to hopefully increase the chances of our kids getting into better schools, even though we don’t really want to.

[ChimpanzeesAreFunny]

I rang round all the schools we are on the waiting list for yesterday.

In the order we applied:

1. No chance. They will have year 9s from our area on the waiting list, we are in the 300s and they don’t operate the waiting list in year 10 and 11
   
2. Similar to no. 1
   
3. We’ve gone further down the list
   
4. We are 9th on the list. Saying we have a chance if people leave and lots drop off the list, but based on previous years they don’t get any movement after Christmas so if we haven’t got a place by then we won’t get one.
   
5. We are 15th and would probably get a place next year
   

Others we have applied to:
All saying similar things

Even though we might get a place at our original 5th choice the offered school is very similar with results and OFSTED etc so I’m thinking it would be better to move DD now rather than wait until next year when there may or may not be a place at a similar school.

[lanthanum]

Double science does not slam the door on any careers; it is sufficient preparation for A-level sciences. A science teacher on another thread commented that they'd rather have an A-level student with 88 in double science than 766 in separate sciences.

Back in the 80s, my (ex-grammar & highly academic) school did not allow anyone to do more than two sciences (separate sciences, no combined in those days). We did very well, including those who picked up biology from scratch at A-level, some of those going on to get Biochem PhDs.

In an ideal world, all schools would be able to offer all options. However some schools may not have enough students opting for triple, or may have enough but only with a fairly wide ability spread in that group, so the top end may do better in a double science set 1.

[Bvop]

Limiting children to double science and BTECs is slamming the door on a bunch of interesting careers (or making the doorway extra hard to go through) at age 11, and is shameful. I’d move her away just for that. However, if you’re likely to get an offer from one of your higher ranked schools it might be worth waiting it out a little longer.

[FishChipsandPeas]

I agree with RedskyAtNight. Friendship groups change a lot in early secondary. The friends they have today are not the same as the ones they have next week or next month. I wouldn't worry about making friends. If she has settled quickly at her current school she should settle quickly at her maybe new one. DC are more adaptable than we give them credit for.

You mentioned about DC from her primary going to the offered school. Does she know them? Will it help to see if she can speak to them to see what they think of the school?

And its isn't a problem at all transport wise if you can walk there in 30 minutes. If she does get the bus with other DC that go to offered school she will make friends with the DC on the bus. Its always a good thing if there are a few DC from the same school making the same journey. They start to look out for each other, even when they are in different years, both in school and to and from school.

When you saw the DC from the offered school on the bus today what was their behavior like? Were they polite? Were they causing mayhem? Is it the type of behavior you want your DC to be around and influenced by? How does this compare to your current school? Sometimes the behavior of the DC from the school are a good indicator of the type of ethos the school has and how its encouraging the pupils to behave when they represent the school.

[RedskyAtnight]

If it's a 30 minute walk even without the bus, then the journey is a non-issue then :)

I take the point about not wanting to move DD if she's settled - however she's only been at the school for a few weeks. It's fairly common for everything to go a bit pear shaped around half term (everyone realises the children they palled up with aren't really that great friends) and friendships to shuffle round.

That said my Year 10 DD is still friends with the same group of 5 girls (bar one) that she made friends with in the first week of Y7. I think she is the exception though :)

[ChimpanzeesAreFunny]

@Namechange8471 - Thank you. So nice to hear, glad its all worked out for you. Oh yes, another uniform is going to be a killer. But if its worth it then its worth it.

@MostDisputesDieAndNoOneShoots - Its nice to hear some perspective off a teacher. That's one of the reasons I want to move her, offered school is aspirational and reading their OFSTED report, even though its only RI, it blows 6th choice out of the water. They have their action plan available on the website and I can see from the website that they have started implementing some of the things OFSTED said needed improvement e.g. curriculum and management. Thanks so much.

[ChimpanzeesAreFunny]

I looked properly at the bus routes earlier today. I actually went and tried it out. I went on the two busses there and then walked back.
Its about a 30minute walk (compared to 5/10 minutes at 6th choice)
The two busses would take 25 minutes
There's the option of getting only bus then walking for 10 minutes as well taking the journey down to 20 minutes.

@RedskyAtnight - The busses are pretty frequency and I seen quite a few DC from 3/4 stops away making the journey. I'm definitely going to ask about out positions on other waiting lists though.

@FishChipsandPeas - I agree, busses and friends shouldn't get in the way. The main concern really is the fact DD has settled and seems to be reasonably happy. I don't want to move her if its not going to work and she's going to be unhappy.

[KoalaRabbit]

Is she likely to get offered a place at another school as well. If its likely a better school may come up in a few weeks I'ld maybe wait otherwise I would take the place.

[MostDisputesDieAndNoOneShoots]

As a secondary school teacher of many years standing my advice is to move her. Low aspiration schools pull down even the keenest and brightest. I’ve seen it happen and the kids don’t reach their full potential. The GCSE thing will be erring on the side of caution for their numbers for OFSTED.... and even doing that they aren’t in OFSTEDs good books. For what it’s worth my husband moved schools a term into year 7 (they moved house) and he was absolutely fine. Made new friends fine. Equally I remember a couple of girls starting late in year 7- after Christmas and February half term- and both slotted right in no problem. Good luck!

[Namechange8471]

Hey op, we recently moved our DD to another secondary school. We moved to a new area in August and had to accept a school 4 miles away.

We got an offer just two weeks after DD started the new school, like yours she was a bit unsure about ‘starting again’, however she is not settled and loves it, she’s even made 2 new friends!

Go for it op! The only negative is the money we’ve spent in uniforms!

[ChimpanzeesAreFunny]

Oh wow! Lots of replies and great advice. Thank you so much everyone.

I do agree with a lot of you that DD will make new friends, I'm not so concerned about this but I think DD might be and maybe your right @PastMyBestBeforeDate. I shall have to interrogate ask her later.

@Notfeelinggreattoday - I'm definitely not snobby about BTECs having done a few myself then did a BTEC level 3 at college alongside NVQ and apprenticeship. If DD decided in a few years that BTECs were for her then I would be fully supportive. However, I don't like the fact that at 6th choice school she would be limited to only BTECs if she doesn't get X mark in a test. I believe she should be able to, and have the opportunity to, make up her own mind about the qualifications she gets rather than being told what she can and cant do.

@mmmmmmcheeeesssseeee - you put that very nicely and succinctly for me. I think I needed that. Thank you.

@Dahlietta - Its not a school we originally put down. We were tied between putting offered school, which DD did originally like more, and 6th choice down as 6th choice but opted for our current 6th choice to guarantee a place. I have spent months regretting it. But on offers day we wouldn't have got a place anyways so we would have still ended up with our 6th choice and been in the same position unfortunately.

@NotDonna and @lanthanum - You make a good point. I shall do that. Hadn't thought about it. Thanks.
In regards to the GCSEs, no its 7, I queried this last year, they can only do 8 if they are in top set and there's lots of other conditions attached, and its why it went at the very bottom of the list with the hope it wouldn't happen. Unfortunately it had to go down because its out catchment school and we didn't want to be left without a place.

[lanthanum]

Agree with NotDonna that it might be worth checking where you are on the waiting list for the better schools. If you move her now, and then a place comes up at one of them, you might regret it. Also, if you've got to the top of a waiting list for a school that you're obviously some distance away from, there may not be very many on the waiting list. It's possible that if you sit out year 7 and nothing comes up at the better schools, they will still/again have a place available in year 8, if you apply afresh for a move.

Only 7 GCSEs sounds very unlikely, given that schools are measured on pupils' performance in 8 - perhaps you only counted double science once. With regard to the restrictions on doing languages/humanities, that does at least mean that the teaching groups for those subjects will not have the bottom-end kids in. Double science is enough to progress to A-level.