Starting school at 10am

[Flutter12]

I know how important sleep is on your health and so I was looking into ways of how I can improve my own DDs sleep and found that it is scientifically proven that teens not only need more sleep than younger children or adults but that their biological clock is set so that they need to fall asleep and wake up later.

The effects of this lack of sleep have massive impacts on grades, mental health, suicide rates etc.
The moodiness/laziness that we associate with teens is actually due to this lack of sleep. Obesity is increased in teens who lack sleep which then carries on into adulthood as the need for sleep is replaced with food especially sugary ones and more recently energy drinks. Reckless or addictive behaviour like drugs and alcohol dependency increases which also impacts on adulthood.

There are long lists of all the negative impacts that occur due to the lack of sleep and one researcher likened it to not letting a small toddler nap and how they would be moody and would not be able to carry out normal tasks.

There was a petition last year for schools to start at 10am but I never heard of this and haven't heard anything since.

If starting school one/two hours later has such massive benefits to not only our children but also us as adults then surely this needs to be a priority instead of spending millions on obesity, mental health, drug and alcohol rehabilitation centres etc surely it would be better to try and prevent these issues rather than treat them once it's too late.

Does anyone have any experience or views on this?

[Spindlicious]

And as we have a mental health and obesity crisis which we spend millions on every year and give people medication and surgery to try and combat these things.

I don’t think this can be an argument for later school starts. We haven’t always had these crisis and teenagers have always got up early for school here. Something else has changed there. These issues stem from other modern day causes. We’d be better treating the root cause of the MH/Obesity crisis rather than rearranging the school day around it. Changes to school day would not help there as early starts are not the cause of these issues and any coincidental gain would be masking the true causes.

[christinarossetti19]

I agree with you OP. There's plenty of research that shows when teenagers have sufficient sleep, academic performance, behaviour and mood are all improved.

I don't buy the 'it's on for a few years' or 'they need to get used to getting up early for work'. Adolescence is a unique period of development - adolescents have the needs of adolescents, not mini adults.

Dr Mathew Walker's book 'Why we sleep' is illuminating if anyone wants to find out more.

[Flutter12]

so if she were to shift to a daily routine that allowed her to stay up extra late it’d be a nightmare. It’s only for a few years and the world shouldn’t shift around inconveniencing everyone else just to let teenagers sleep late I’m afraid.

I assume the idea would be to keep their bedtimes the same as they are lacking both quantity and quality of sleep.
So although the quality of sleep would still not be very good until after 11/12 they would get to sleep in later which would at least allow them to get the quantity of sleep they need to function properly.

And the issue that the researchers are trying to get across is that it is not just about sleepy teenagers getting lower grades, it is about the long term effects that they have found associated with it.
And as we have a mental health and obesity crisis which we spend millions on every year and give people medication and surgery to try and combat these things. But surely if simply starting school one hour later would reduce these issues then that is less of an inconvenience than all the other measures they are trying.

[Spindlicious]

Also please note that not ALL teenagers internal clocks shift to later. Many teenagers function better in mornings. It’s common but not all.

Plus at 14/15 I’m not happy to leave DD up after we’ve gone to bed. She’s not allowed her phone in her room after bed so if she were to shift to a daily routine that allowed her to stay up extra late it’d be a nightmare. It’s only for a few years and the world shouldn’t shift around inconveniencing everyone else just to let teenagers sleep late I’m afraid.

[Flutter12]

Yes for those who wake early it will definitely be more difficult as they will be waiting around all morning for school to start!

The research is very interesting as apparently what we see as normal moody/lazy teenage behaviour is just lack of sleep but for years we've put it down to just teenage hormones.

[pastandpresent]

Yes, it is actually interesting, sorry op, for jumping to conclusion without much thought.
My dc have some sort of sleep problem(asd traits), he doesn't sleep until late, yet get up early. So just thinking it's going to be a disaster for me if the school starts at 10 instead of 9!

But if recent study shows there's benefits, maybe the school might change. I do remember I was always sleepy when I was in school.

[onlyreadingneverposting8]

I have a 10yr old with a sleep disorder (due to ASD). She attends an internet school. We were able to request no lessons early morning (lessons can be between 8am and 4pm). She has no lessons before 11am - it's been a game changer for us and her! No more is she trying to go to school on 4hrs sleep (sometimes less). Both my eldest children (one in uni and one just finished Yr13) admit they did most of secondary school on less than 5hrs sleep (I was the same sleep about 12/1am and up for school 5:30-6am). Offering flexibility is the key in education and it is sorely lacking!!!

[Ionacat]

Our local sixth form college starts at 10 and finishes at 4.15. Fairly mixed reaction from the students. Generally it’s fine if you’re local but it takes from a wide community so those pupils aren’t as happy. (Harder to get back for activities etc.)

[CraftyGin]

I have to say, that as a teacher of teenagers, morning lessons are far more productive. Students groan about the last lesson of the day.

As the school Timetabler, I get a lot of grief about period 6 lessons.

[Flutter12]

No so more time at a childminders or at nursery if parents need to work so they won't be getting any more sleep which I think is the purposes of the plan.

Teenagers won't need a childminder or nursery though. I'm not sure what ages it does affect but I think the primary-aged children are able to sleep and wake earlier than teenagers.
But it could cause issues if parents take their teens to school although for me personally, I find it harder to get childcare before school than after school.

[Flutter12]

It will be interesting to see how the schools that are doing later starts due to COVID get on.

One things that I did read that similar to a PP the first couple of hours in school is basically useless as they don't take in as much information and then by the last lesson they are tired and cranky.

It's incredibly interesting when you really get down to it.
I have been reading more about it and it really is incredibly interesting. And the impacts it has are huge!

If it was such a great idea, why many schools around the world aren't doing it? Many of us older generations survived totally fine with earlier start than 10 am.

This is exactly what I'm wondering!
But then with advances in science we are learning new things every day. And things like mental health were not really seen as a priority before and there were never studies linking drug use and lack of sleep in teens before.
Many generations smoked inside cafes and hospitals until it became illegal and now it is a normal thing to do so I do think many things change as the world changes.

[Hersetta427]

No so more time at a childminders or at nursery if parents need to work so they won't be getting any more sleep which I think is the purposes of the plan.

[Fyzz]

Parents don't start work at 10am though - terrible idea.
Parents don't usually finish at 3.30 either.
This doesn’t apply to young children who may need taking to school, the shift in sleeping patterns happens around 13 to 15 so at an age when they can get themselves to and from school.

[InDispairThisWeek]

DD’s college has a 10am start (UK) and she loves it, it really suits her. The latest finish time is 4.30 so not late at all (when I was at college years ago the finish time was 5.15 for some lessons)

[CraftyGin]

Niche schools have a lot to offer to other schools about how they do what they do. They shouldn’t be discounted because they are different. If a state school wants to do something different, then perhaps they can learn something from the weirdo school.

[Meredusoleil]

@CraftyGin

There’s a school near me - Hampton Court School - that has a late start for the older students. I’m not sure how they do the practicalities, but I’m fairly sure they has been a lot written about them if you want to search for it.

That school is not far from me too. It's private and teaches a lot of its curriculum in French! Hardly representative of the average state comp lol.

[RedskyAtnight]

DC's school is starting the older years from 9.30 this term (to allow staggered starts due to Covid). The DC are still moaning about the early start, are not visibly any more alert and we're all noticing the downside of not having so much time after school.
But, granted it's only been a week so far.

[Happyheartlovelife]

It is true

I work with world renowned endocrine drs.

Teenagers body clocks are slightly different

Our hormones work in accordance with our circadian rhythm. Jet lag and all sorts is due to that rhythm. If the part of our brains which control our circadian rhythm was damaged. Then we'd die. They did a study in mice where they damaged that part to see what happened. It's incredibly important. Cortisol. Thyroid. Acth. Growth hormone (which btw is released more at night. Hence why kids get growing pains at night!). They all follow the circadian rhythm

It's incredibly interesting when you really get down to it.

[RedCatBlueCat]

No, please no.
The mornings are long enough already. We dont need MORE time to waste in the mornings. I'd rather have more of an afternoon or evening, where we can actually use the time.
I've been told for over a decade DS1 will sleep better when he's eating/walking/starts school/starts secondary. I'm holding out for the teenage years (they start next year, roll on not hearing him get up at 5.45).

[Bargebill19]

I’m a night owl. I remember basically sleepwalking through the first couple of hours at school. For me, a ten am start would have been bliss - not so for the rest of the household. If I’ve ever worked earlier than 10am people soon know to not ask a question before I’ve had two cups of extra strong caffeine otherwise they will get the full truth!
It’s heaven now I’ve found a job which allows me mid morning starts.

[chocolateoranges33]

Both my children are now starting school much later due to Covid. DD14 starts at 10am and DS15 now starts at 10.15am. It's only been one week so I can't comment on the benefits yet but so far they're liking it! It will be interesting to see how the school thinks it's gone in July. As far as I know this is here to stay all the time Covid is around.

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

DDs uses to attend school 7.30-1 (preschool class was (7.30-10.30). It was liked by all the pupils up to sixth form because if the afternoons- even with the school bus for the secondary leaving at 6.45.
I wish they had those hours now. It was a lot better school-life balance. The local standard working day was 6-2.

[pastandpresent]

If it was such a great idea, why many schools around the world aren't doing it? Many of us older generations survived totally fine with earlier start than 10 am.

[BendingSpoons]

I think it would be good to start later. Most secondary schools start around 8.30 and most pupils are home before their parents. I don't see it would be that big a deal to shift it so the school day started later. You could have libraries and possibly even clubs open before school for those who want or are dropped off by parents. Teachers can do more marking/planning/staff meetings before school and less after, or just get in later. It can be tough for teachers to find childcare that starts early enough. I worked in a secondary school that started at 8.20, so I had to leave home about 7.15. I hated it. Yes in finished earlier but I had to go to bed earlier too or be tired. It's worse for the majority of teenagers due to their circadian rhythms.

[Flutter12]

Parents don't start work at 10am though - terrible idea.

Most parents don't work exactly from 9:00-3:30pm though either.
But I get what you're saying and it would be difficult for those who have young teens but then if it means their teens are less moody or less likely to deal with mental health or drug addictions etc not only in the teenage years but into adulthood then surely that outweighs the negatives of the hour difference?