Surely using mocks for GCSE grades is hugely unfair.

[1nterstar]

Our school did them before Christmas before the whole course was completed, others were doing them this week.

Many kids don’t revise as much for mocks as the real thing( if at all).

The content and marking varies hugely.

Just how can they be used?

[Drivemybluecar]

My sons college that he wants to attend have said they are taking children regardless of their results. As my son has been ill last year and missed a ton of school this has been a god send for him

[cptartapp]

The current year 10's 'may' end up competing against current year 11's who can choose to sit the exams next summer. They would need allowances.

[Bathroom12345]

My DS has 5 offers from universities. He has predicted grades higher than anything he has been asked to achieve by all of them.

Where does that leave him. We questioned his teachers very carefully when they were issued. Even if he dropped a grade in each subject he would still achieve them.

Any idea what you think will happen?

He is terribly disappointed he cannot prove it now and I have said in these unprecedented times he has already.

[Greenpop21]

He should be ok then. They have said no young person will be hindered from moving to the next step in their education. He’ll be awarded grades based on those and teacher assessment etc.

[Bathroom12345]

He has an offer on Durham which I am hoping he will choose. Also Durham will really need to pull their fingers out - my DS had to wait nearly 6 months for an offer so hopefully this sort of arrogance will stop.

[Aragog]

It's not just mocks.

Teachers are making a judgement using a range of evidence inc predicated grass, assessments (inc mocks), coursework already done, historical grades and more.

Though they haven't got full
Guidance yet.

Mocks alone would be a dreadful idea but they aren't doing that.

[Aragog]

The September tests suggested are for those who want to sit them, if they feel they could do better than the grades given.

Based on mocks dd wouldn't attain her a level grades needed for her favourite universities. She hasn't yet made her firm and second choice as we were waiting on one place. But with her predicted grades she would.

One university has changed their offer to unconditional. But it wasn't DD's favourite so not she's torn between accepting it anyway or taking the risk.

We are waiting to hear more before she chooses - think she has until 1 May.

[StampMc]

I am queen of last minute revision and definitely dragged my gcse grades up significantly with mad cramming in the weeks after Easter. When I look at what my y11 ds has covered I know I would be 100% screwed if I was sitting them now. The content is just far too much to piss about for 2 (or 11) years and pull it together in the last few weeks. Predicted grades are going to be broadly accurate for the vast majority. Ds really didn’t do as much in maths and science as he should have for his mock back in December so his results weren’t great. He has worked harder since and they’ve had tests and he goes to after school revision classes so hopefully there is evidence that his grade would have improved but realistically if you bomb the mocks because you simply don’t know the content then you aren’t going to ace the real thing.

One concern is if you would have applied for special consideration during the actual exams for illness/bereavement etc you wouldn’t have mentioned anything during mocks, but teachers are going to be aware if a pupils mock performance if wildly different from their capabilities demonstrated by class work, homework and other assessment.

Ds asked his teacher if he was supposed to finish coursework for his one coursework subject and she didn’t know. I haven’t had any info on work for my y7 and y9 dc and I’m trying to make peace with the fact that I’ve paid for a tutor for 2 years for the subject ds is now not sitting as an external candidate.

[Puffalicious]

I cannot stand people who just don't listen! It is NOT based on mocks/ prelims( Scotland), it has been clearly stated it is on predicted grades, course work and historical achievement. Predicted grades are based on recent performance and if they had attended for the rest of term what grade is likely under the best circumstances: experienced teachers know how exam board marks. The vast majority of kids will get exactly what they would have. Some will get lucky, some will lose out: there's always kids who do better or worse than predicted, but what else can we do?

My son can't sit Nationals (GCSE in Scotland) and is very upset he can't prove himself, but yesterday each teacher told him his predicted grades and he's now happy and relieved.

[Throughabushbackwards]

HoDs meeting at my school late yesterday concluded that all we know so far is:

1. Grades will be awarded in July.

1. Grades will be awarded based on whatever evidence schools are asked to provide. This may include mocks, coursework or future assessments (our school has facility to do this remotely), but at present we have not had any details from the government or the exam boards who will, no doubt, set out stringent guidelines for what we are to compile.

1. There will be an option for pupils to take an exam later in the year if they feel they will perform better than the grade they are given in July.

[Bathroom12345]

Puff. I know. I think the parents complaining that most students don’t take mocks seriously, child will go from C to A when they finally knuckle down. Unfortunately they will never know. Who doesn’t take mocks seriously? It’s a huge lesson in life, don’t try and blag exams, and if you thought you could still mess around and then a month before the exams try harder.......sorry it’s now too late.

[Puffalicious]

Bathroom exactly! I had one patent comment on a friend's FB thread that her child didn't take prelims seriously because they ' don't count for anything' so did poorly, and the hard work said child has done since February is 'all for nothing'. FFS. I told her schools will predict grades based on this recent 'hard work' and course work and she didn't reply.

My DS took the prelims very seriously and did very well, thankfully. Like you say, who doesn't take them seriously?

[Aragog]

Who doesn’t take mocks seriously?

To be fair most kids don't take mocks seriously. That's been the case for decades. Some schools themselves don't really take them That seriously.

They often take place just before or just after Christmas. Now if they happen on day one after Christmas chances are kids haven't really revised properly over the festivities. That's obvious. Some happen early in the winter term, Way before many are really knuckling down.

They are rarely full exams. They don't take the coursework elements into account much of the time. The full course content isn't finished.

Mocks are often used as a sharp shock for pupils, often marked even more harshly to create that bit of panic. For decades most kids knuckle down after worrying mock grades. It's always happened - when I was at school in the late 80s/early 90s, when I was teaching secondary in the late 90s and now when dd and her friends are sitting their exams.

[Aragog]

You can't use this cohort as a life lesson for others. Let them all get rubbish mock grades as real grades and further classes will learn not to risk it. It would definitely not be fair. Hence why the government isn't going down that road fortunately.

It might, however, make future cohorts think and will encourage schools to make this point to them even more so.

[noblegiraffe]

I think this might be the fairest award yet.

People always make the mistake of thinking that teacher assessment is fair, better than exams etc. Evidence shows that it’s not. Teachers are human, teacher assessment is subjective and unfortunately it tends to underestimate the abilities of disadvantaged children and ethnic minorities.

I hope Ofqual will bear this in mind when moderating.

[Bathroom12345]

Sorry. Completely disagree. Most kids do not take mocks seriously....not in my view. As a parent you would know whether your child was revising or not. I would have gone bananas if I saw that sort of behaviour. If you think suddenly all these cba pupils suddenly decide to show their true colours can you please show firm evidence. Not your friends daughter who went from D to A.

[Aragog]

I can only talk about experiences of my own. Not facts. I no longer teach secondary. But I do know of real examples of my own, but that's not stats for you.

And in my experience (form my own childhood, 10'years teaching exam classes in the past and currently my own dd and her friends) kids generally do not take mocks anywhere near as seriously as the real things and many, if not most, do increase their grades - some greatly so - between mocks and the real thing, as all phases of education. Kids revise for mocks, yes. But no where near the same extent. Dd did revise for mocks but when the real things came for GCSEs the revision massively increased. She was no longer learning new material and she was focused on studying and recapping and revising, all day every day. Not having Christmas and Boxing Day fun, fitting in revision amongst homework and coursework and being in school for lessons. It was a huge change. Her friends were all the same. And almost all their grades from GCSE mocks went up by a minimum of one grade per subject. The mock grades didn't include their coursework elements either, just the exam grade. Clearly some children are way better at coursework than exams.

Not statistic proof but my own personal experience (not friend of a friend)

My a level economics. January mocks - E. Real thing in the Amat - A

DD's mock maths GCSE in the January - a borderline 4. Real thing - 7.

I taught many students at gcse and a level and almost all had different real grades compared to mocks, and many did go up.

Both myself and dd were/are good students and revised. But the effort after mocks and once the courses were finished and focus could change was huge.
Our experiences are, in my own life experience, not unusual.

Mocks would NOT be a fair representation of pupil arraignment.

But the government, OFQUAL and schools know this. Hence they aren't asking teachers to rely on them anyway.

And my point still stands; many, if not most, students do not take mocks any where near as seriously as the real thing. Many learn from the shock of a bit so good mock grade. Schools, likewise, often don't take mocks as seriously as the real things.

[Aragog]

Most kids do not take mocks seriously....not in my view.

By the way. This is what I agree with.

[Puffalicious]

I disagree, in my school (inner-city, deprived area) the school and kids take them, in the main, very seriously. Yes, they make their mistakes (quoting from the wrong lines for eg) but they definitely try their hardest: it's a culture they are introduced to early on in their school career.

Most kids go up a grade, you're right there, but it's extremely unusual to go up more than that. In saying that Scotland is different as we are still A, B or C (with 2 categories of distinction in each), a D is a fail, so it is very, very rare for a pupil to go from C to A or D to B, for example.

My own son's school has the same culture where prelims are really important.

[Puffalicious]

noblegiraffe I work in a school full of disadvantaged kids and our priority is to get them as good grades as we possibly can- including predictions based on solid evidence under the best conditions. Lots of excellent supported study and study camps to make sure they do the best they can.

We don't have a grammar system, which i think benefits this hugely as we have a wide range of abilities in the same building.

After 25 years teaching I have rarely come across a pupil who doesn't see the benefit of prelims.

[Aragog]

Maybe different systems. Maybe different children. Who knows.

But I know my experience isn't unusual amongst teacher friends I have and talk to.

But it doesn't matter anyway.
School bodies already knew mocks alone wouldn't be a true indication and they aren't going to be the deciding factor.

The government has said its not mocks grades being used anyway. It's a combination of many things. Mock marks are just one small part of the overall evidence, as they should be.

[SisterSist3r]

Anybody know what happens to the kids who have had MH issues? Shit happens, it’s not just a case of the studious V the cba( deserve all they get).

[maro0n]

The difference with mocks is that they take place over a much shorter and more intense time period than the actual GCSEs. DS did all his in a two week period straight after Xmas, generally doing two exams a day. At least he had Xmas to revise though, as some schools did them before Xmas.

Some schools make a much bigger deal about mocks than others, eg posting a results letter, etc. DS’ school very much downplayed the results, saying that they were mainly intended as practise only and to highlight any areas they may need to focus in for July. They also marked them very harshly ( in the sense that nobody got a 9) because they didn’t want anyone becoming complacent).

DS had a headache by the last day of his mocks because he’s done 3 exams that day. On the last Physics paper, I think he scored a 5.

In the real thing, he paced himself much better and was hoping for at least 7s, based on most of his mock grades, He got ten grade 9s and most of his school got all 8s and 9s, even though they weren’t expecting this based on their mocks. To be honest, I think DS’ teachers might have assessed him as capable of a 9 grade in most subjects, but would have probably given him 8s at best in Maths, Physics and Biology. He really pulled it out of the bag in the last term and surprised himself and from what I can see, this is very a very common pattern. I do hope teachers factor this in for this year.

Having said this, for children who fall apart under exam conditions, ongoing assessment is no doubt a good thing. And anyone can bomb an exam so I guess this strategy at least protects them against that possibility.

[FlyingPandas]

From my own personal experience I went from an E in my A level history mock to an A in the real thing. Anecdotally I bet most people will know at least one story of a student who bombed a mock and then aced the real thing. That said, I bet there are also anecdotes of people who aced a mock and then bombed the real thing! For every student who benefits from a massive revision drive in the run up to proper GCSSs, there will be another who crashes and burns. For every student who is better under exam conditions, there will be another who does far better at coursework. Etc etc etc.

But it’s all kind of a moot point because it has been made very clear that schools will NOT just use mock results. Nor will they just use predicted grades or just teacher assessment or just KS2 SATS data. It will thankfully be a mixture of everything.

[SisterSist3r]

Will they take into account MH issues and will they do that thing when they adjust grades according to what everybody else has?