Combined science grades

[Alsoplayspiccolo]

Can someone please clarify how combined science grades would be presented on a school's results table?

For example, would a 66 be entered twice for each student attaining it, as it is worth 2 GCSE grade 6s?
And would they enter a 65 as a 5 overall?

There still seems to be some confusion as to what the double grades actually mean; I just watched a YouTube video by a science teacher who said that 65 means you have achieved a 6 and a 5, whereas another teacher said it means you have two 5s, but both at the higher end of the grade boundary.

[CobwebKate]

The results of all six papers are added together to give a raw total score. The grade boundaries are then calculated on a scale of these raw total scores. Imagine the grade boundaries for double science as going from 1 - 18 rather than 1 - 9, because it is worth 2 GCSEs, that’s how many grade boundaries there are, 18, rather than 9. But then it needs to be given as 2 GCSEs so it is split into 2. My DD got an 8 7 in 2018. It would be as though her grade was a 15, they don’t express it as such and don’t use half grades so it is expressed as an 8 7. Her best friend scored 3 marks higher which took her into the next grade boundary which was the 16th grade boundary expressed as an 8 8. They are two separate grades. My DD got 2 x 9, 5 x 8 (one of which was science) and 2 x 7 ( one of which was science).

Sorry that is probably clear as mud, but it makes sense to me!

[TeenPlusTwenties]

I guess the only time it matters is when 6th forms or employers need '5 at grade 6' or whatever. Then there needs to be some understanding as to whether a 6-5 could count as 1 of those grade 6s, or not.

[titchy]

If someone gets 7-6, how can that be a 7 and a 6

Don't think about it as a 7-6 - really it's a 6.5-6.5. But when have you ever seen a grade 6.5, or 4.5? No-one would know what that meant, so they call it 7-6 as grades in full numbers is what is understood.

Wales would grade the above as AB I assume.

[Alsoplayspiccolo]

I'm still utterly confused that 3 subjects can be combined to give 1 total marks that is then used to give 2 grades!
If someone gets 7-6, how can that be a 7 and a 6; how can it be said that you gave achieved 2 different grades, when the grading is issued from a single, combined total score?
My DC's school claims to have 9 students who achieved 9s in combined science this summer, but who knows whether that's actually 9-9 or includes 9-8?

Does anyone know how it's notated in Wales, where they still use A-G?

[Lougle]

Thank you. I understand that for the higher paper. I think I was confused that the top grade for the foundation paper was so low - 237/400. I suppose that there just can't have been many children with 237+ marks in that paper.

[sanityisamyth]

@Lougle the grade boundaries are set after the exams have all been marked. The top 20% of students (however many marks they got) would be awarded a grade 7+.

"Percentage of those achieving at least a grade 7 who will be awarded a grade 9 = 7% + 0.5 × (percentage of students awarded grade 7 and above)"
^ofqual.blog.gov.uk/2017/04/05/setting-grade-9-in-new-gcses/^

It's a really small percent of students who get the grade 9 so it does identify them as the top performers, regardless of how many marks they got.

Doing it this way enables the same % of students to get the top grades, regardless of how difficult the exam was. The grade boundaries can be raised or lowered for the papers accordingly.

[Lougle]

Why would they have 400 marks available on an exam, but the top grade is scored when you have just 237 marks? I understand about SD curves, etc., and I understand that the foundation paper is easier than the higher, so they shouldn't achieve the same grade for the same marks, but it seems really odd not to differentiate between a student who got 237 marks and a student who got 400 marks on the test.

[sanityisamyth]

Science is a core subject for a very good reason. Many aspects of all three subjects overlap, and many topics covered are useful in everyday life - not just to pass an exam. Being able to choose to study only one or two of the sciences is not wise for the vast majority of the population. If there are good reasons (medical, religious etc) then I can understand not studying certain topics, but to opt out because you "don't like" a subject or "find it boring" should never be recommended.

[Comefromaway]

I do have to say that although the decision to allow two separate sciences at ds's school has been brilliant for my son (he has asd and has an extreme aversion to biology) for the vbast majority of children studying all three whether in triple or combined double is better.

[TeenPlusTwenties]

nonick For general life, I think it is better to have 2/3rds of the knowledge of the 3 sciences, than all of two and none of the other. So when it comes to Education, as opposed to passing exams, is good. I have learned a lot of biology through DD1&2s GCSEs - I myself was forced to pick Phys&Chem OR Biology at school.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

oh great, I actually think that would be a lot better for my children (assuming they are seen as good enough to do triple science). I did three sciences separately but lots of my friends only chose to do 1 or 2 as you could do that then. I think it is a shame this is no longer offered at schools (with the exception of Comefromaway's son's school)

[catndogslife]

It used to be possible to take Triple Science as a "combined" subject with 3 grades for "triple" science i.e. core + additional + further but this has not been possible for some years.
It's now 3 separate GCSEs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology with 2 exams in each subject. the grade for Physics is based on the marks for the 2 Physics papers and so on for the other 2 Sciences so they are totally independent from each other. You can mix tiers for this option i.e. Physics both exams Higher and Biology both exams Foundation but with the Combined science all exams have to be the same tier.
I would say that for a pupil who is 2 or more grades lower in one Science subject at the end of Y10 the "triple" science option would be better as it's easy to see how pupils perform across the different subjects.

[Comefromaway]

Triple science is a sort of nickname for taking single separate sciences as opposed to combined science so the exams for triple are not connected at all (hence its possible to do foundation for one science and higher for the others etc.

My son's school is unusual in that it does not offer combined science at all but allows students to opt for either two or three separate sciences. So he will get a grade in Physics and Chemistry but not biology.

[sanityisamyth]

@nonicknameseemsavailable they get 3 separate grades they could get a 9 in bio, a 7 in chem and a 4 in physics. It's reliant only on what they get for those subject papers.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

out of interest then if they do triple science do they get given the grades as biology, chemistry and physics or do they get 3 grades the same for "triple science"?

[catndogslife]

See the following blog for information about grades ofqual.blog.gov.uk/2018/03/23/grading-the-new-gcse-science-qualifications/.
It looks as if the grades are based on an average across all the 6 papers but if you are a few marks below the grade for 6-6 rather than giving 5-5 this is shown by 6-5. So technically a student with 4-3 is just below the official pass mark for 4-4. It's possible that for college applications it could be accepted as one level 2 pass, but it's probably down to the individual sixth form.
It wouldn't really matter mathematically if the school entered it as a 6 and a 5 or two 5.5s in their own presentation of the results as mathematically it would be the same.
To cover @titchy's point about grade 1 in more detail. A GCSE qualification is a level 1/2 qualification. So to progress to level 3 (BTEC or future T-levels) you need to have level 2 passes i.e. grade 4+ in at least 5 subjects. For A level subjects higher grades than this would be needed.
If a student obtains GCSE grades 1-3 they would have passed level 1 but would need to repeat level 2 either by retaking GCSEs or taking a level 2 vocational qualification.

[titchy]

A grade 1 is NOT a pass

FFS of course it's a pass. It's just at level 1 rather than level 2.

A 43 in double science is the equivalent to two grade 3.5s - but as you don't get grade 3.5 it's recorded as a grade 4 and a grade 3 as that is the same size.

You can't give GCSE grades for individual science because they only study 66% of a GCSE in each subject, unless they do paper 3 for each.

[sanityisamyth]

The 4-3 was a quick invention by the government/exam board as so many students missed the 4-4 mark very narrowly. It means that students can include 1 GCSE pass in their college requirements, rather than none when they were only out by a couple of marks.

[sanityisamyth]

@Alsoplayspiccolo because combined science is only worth 2 GCSEs. There is extra content to cover to be awarded a GCSE in separate biology, chemistry and physics. They have to do all three subjects but it's only 2 GCSEs so it's the simplest way to do it.

Attached (hopefully) is a screenshot of how AQA worked out their grade boundaries.

If the 6 papers together scored 117 then they've achieved enough marks for a 5-4 but not enough for a 5-5.

[Alsoplayspiccolo]

sanityisamyth, so you're saying that a 43 is a 4 and a 3? I still don't understand how 6 papers over 3 subjects can be divided into two separate grades? And if it can be, why not simply keep every subject separate, so that students are able to say," I got 4 in biology, 4 in physics and 3 in chemistry"?

The idea that you can both pass and fail science at the same time makes no sense to me.

[Comefromaway]

As I say, it depends who you are asking. A 3 is not a standard pass but it isn't a complete fail. There are some kids who will never achieve a Grade 4. Telling them they have failed comepletely well, why would they even bother trying to get a Grade 3 in something if they think they are failures anyway.

[sanityisamyth]

Pic didn't attach. A grade 1 is only just above ungraded.

[sanityisamyth]

A grade 1 is NOT a pass.



[Comefromaway]

*@Comefromaway a grade 1 is not a pass. It is a grade. A grade 4 is a pass. A grade 5 is a "strong pass" *

It depends who you are asking.

One of our local colleges asks for 4 GCSE passes at Grade 3 for some of their Level 2 btec courses. It asks for 5 GCSE passes at Grade 4 or above for some of their Level 3 Btec courses and it askes for so many Grade 5 and 6's for their A level courses.

[Comefromaway]

No, I'm not a teacher. Dh is but he doesn't teach science. I'm just going by the entry requirements of out local college and how they ask for the grades on their online form.