Wallington County Grammar School (WCGS)

[Auar]

Hi all,

I am facing a huge dilemma and feeling so stressed out.

I live in Harrow (Rayners Lane) and my DS has secured a place in Wallington County Grammar School. It's 1.5 hour journey each way in fast trains. My son also has got a place in St. Clements Dane in Chorleywood which is a good comprehensive school. So, I have to choose.

My son is alright to travel as we did two days trial but I am feeling nervous. Due to my work in the city, I can go with my son half way (Balham) to Wallington County Grammar School. But a daily commute of 1.5 hour each way, is it worth to make for the Wallington County Grammar School? I wonder if any parent's child from Harrow or Wembley or similar areas make a journey to these areas for Wilson's, Sutton Grammar, Non-such Grammar, Wallington Girls schools etc. which are in the similar location.

What you advise? Do you know anyone who has the similar experience? I am going mad with stress of making this decision. My son will be 12 years in Oct and I know he will only grow to make a commute which is a reality of working life in London. I hope you can help or even better share if you have similar experience or know someone doing the same. I will highly appreciate any help.

Regards.

Auar

[ChristopherTracy]

I would add that of all the Sutton grammars, Wally boys has the most local children (though skewed over to Coulsdon/Croydon etc) as it has got rid of its second stage in the test.

OP - I have a boy at WCGS and you need to accept your local place or move - those are your choices. The daily commute isn't one of them.

If you really want the school - commit and move.

[WombatChocolate]

OP, can you confirm that you have just had an offer for Wallington? It's not possible to have 2 offers for state schools unless you have recently been offered one from a waiting list and now have to decide probably within a couple of days.

I can see that this late offer (assuming this is what it is) makes you query your original allocation. The offer of a Grammar is attractive and you obviously liked it or wouldn't have applied. If you had been offered Wallington in the first round if offers, was your plan to move, or had you not really factored in the journey issues and applied without a plan? If you had applied without a plan, it was always a daft idea. If you planned to move, then that would still be possible if you get on with it speedily, but it's a lot to uproot a whole family because of 1 school place.

STCD is a great school and highly sought after. You are not facing a Grammar vs awful Comp dilemma. In fact you're already giving your child a much bigger journey from where you live than most local children will be doing.

Unless you plan to move speedily, give up the Wallimgton place realising it was a practical impossibility. Recognise the great results the school you've been allocated get and that your child will have every opportunity there.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Yes, there will be local children waiting on a place at all the grammars. Do the right thing OP: move or give the place to someone who is more able to take advantage of the whole grammar school experience, friendships, extra-curricular activities and all.

[Toomanycats99]

Think the OP has done a runner.......

[Gingercat1223]

@Toomanycats99 , OP has the same post on Surrey section of elevenplusexams.co.uk forum with more of the same advice!

[Quartz2208]

I live very close to Nonsuch High School and for 2 weeks one Summer did a similar commute and it nearly did me in after 2 weeks.

if you love it that much move - we get a few new starters at DD and DS primary school due to siblings coming in - DS has 2 from reception who moved and DD had 2 new starters.

When we looked around Nonsuch the headteacher did say really look at the commute - its DD favourite school but then again she can walk it in 20 mins so it should be

[Toomanycats99]

Wonder if they will listen to anyone.....there are scarily committed people on that forum so if even they are saying no......

[Quartz2208]

Its insane - we looked at liked both NHS and Wally Girls and DD is hoping to do well at the test because it would be perfect for her (her scores are good at the moment). But its not worth that kind of travel time. We have discounted Tiffins for that reason. Any advantages the school has will get lost in the travel time

[MarchingFrogs]

If you really want the school - commit and move.

Sadly, those wanting to impose such a commute on their DC often cite 'compelling reasons' why they can't move to the locality of the school and put the burden of a difficult journey on the adults of the household instead.

[WombatChocolate]

To be fair about the elevenplusforum, the dedicated regular posters spend much of their time advising those who are considering ridiculous journeys, not to do it.
It's the same every year - families from 2 hours away from QE boys or HBS or a Sutton/Kingston Grammar apply and maybe get an offer and then are on the forums asking if anyone will lift share or knows if a private coach service, or calculating the journey by road or public transport to be a 'doable' 1 HR 45 mins each way, forgetting that we are talking about peak times and an extra 30 mins or HR can easily by added by regular traffic problems.
The advice is always the same - realise a grammar is only a good option if it is a viable travel option. That means some people need to move (which makes it not viable as it will mean uprooti g an entire family) or realise it isn't viable.

The Op is what might be termed an education tourist. Her child lives in the LB of Harrow as has clearly sat exams for SW Herts, along with the Sutton exams and possibly others too. To have got a place at St Clement Danes from that location will have involved getting a high score in the exam, which they have achieved, probably following extensive preparation. Already the journey from where they live to That school will be long and the child won't be local and possibly find joining in extra curricular activities difficult. It is a partially selective Comp and as a result of that and it's catchment is a high achieving Comp. That child has every chance of doing as well there as at a Grammar. But the problem is that it doesn't have 'grammar' in its name and for some people, a grammar school will always be preferable.

In reality, I expect Op knows that the Surrey school won't be viable, but it's a wrench to turn down the offer. I do understand that. In the end though, reality will hit because they won't want to uproot the entire family (that rarely happens in reality once people look into the implications of doing that) and in this case there is a happy outcome because there is already a fantastic school place available, which isn't the case for many who are desperate for a Grammar place.

[Chartreuser]

DCs are at a partially academically selective comp not too far from WGS. DD didn't sit 11+ but would have probably passed but not well enough to get a place. As it is she is top stream and I think don't better there than she would have at a grammar. She also has a wealth of extra curricular activities that the grammars don't offer.

[Toomanycats99]

@Chartreuser

Probably the same one my dd who failed second stage 11+ is at!

Very happy with it!

I actually think it will give her more options to consider post 16 than the university production line the grammar will probably have pushed her into!

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

...the university production line the grammar will probably have pushed her into! Is it the schools or the parents though????

DS's school has tried very hard to promote apprenticeships as a viable alternative to the traditional university trajectory.

I wonder if OP has done the proposed journey on a very hot day like today? Imagine doing that aged 11, laden down with school/PE kit (with blazer on as they are supposed to do unless they get permission to take them off), on a busy train during the rush hour, potentially without air-con.

[Toomanycats99]

I went to one of the grammars referred to on this thread. I left at 16 to go to college as I felt it suited me better and my memory is that the push was always towards traditional a levels university route. It was a fair number of years ago but I cannot imagine anything has changed.

I want my child to understand about the options available for modern apprenticeships, vocational courses at college etc.

[Chartreuser]

Toomanycats yes very happy, and also for my far less industrious (so lower set) but bright DS. And Ds2 hoping to go next year cos of all the sport. Whilst their school is successful at sorry they also run non selective sports clubs, knowing several children at grammars extra curricular sport is only for those who are able yet if you are able but don't want to join in you are made to do it anyway.

And the grammars in question no doubt push for academic continuation at university, little no talk of alternatives you would be expected to leave at 16.

There is an important distinction between these grammars that admit from far and wide outside of LA and are highly highly academic and competitive (and cut-throat, no qualms about chucking you it if standards decline as plenty others to take your place) and those in counties that use the grammar system. Have experience of afew grammars in coastal Kent which Annie's just from catchment and effort still selective and achieving good results seem far more holistic that Sutton /Bromley/Kingston ones. So please don't think I'm tarring all grammars

[Quartz2208]

Kingston (Tiffins) now pretty much does have a catchment area. For girls it’s postcode and boys it’s distance (I think)

Sutton are also now top 85 then next 100 in catchment so moving more towards living near. I suspect it may shrink in the future as sutton is very short of school places

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

It would be interesting to know what % of the Sutton grammars' pupils live in-borough.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

And more to the point, how many neither come from Sutton nor the neighbouring boroughs.

[JoJoSM2]

I’d say most children in the Sutton grammars are local, ie not too far from their chosen school. But that includes Croydon children at WCGS or Wilson’s or Kingston or Epsom children at Nonsuch (all commutable on a short bus journey). There are some families that apply from very far away and then move into the area (I’ve met several of those). The furthest away children that I’ve come across were from zones 2-3 SW London but then it’s an easy train journey for them.

[JoJoSM2]

Oh and several girls on the X26 coming from Hounslow. That bus runs only twice per hour so I doubt more than 10 girls in total attend from that far away.

I also know a number of families that moved into the area when children were in Years 3-5 with the view to applying for the grammars.

[Quartz2208]

Its interesting because the boys is very different to the girls. Girls have far less out of catchment places (you have to include local boroughs as Nonsuch is on the border)

Nonsuch top 85, 110 catchment then 15 sutton

Wally Girls top 100 then 110 catchment

Boys though is interesting Wally Boys has a top 110 then just 15 catchment places

Wilsons is just in rank order until the end where living near helps

Sutton Grammar is 75 catchment 60 any

So its all different - Wilsons could have a lot out of catchment compared with the others

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

DC1 said they had one pupil from West Hampstead in their year group (otherwise all localish) but looking at the map that would be a more straightforward journey - on Thameslink - than from Harrow. Apparently he was often late though.

I also think that the grammars are hot on parent involvement. The further away a family lives the less likely they are to get involved in the school community and giving back.

[TheRedBarrows]

OP, friends become so important to young teens.

However will he socialise if he lives 1.5 hours or more away from his school friends?

A few from my area of S London go to Sutton Grammars: they meet up and travel together.

Your boy would be on his own, on packed tubes and trains, in the dark for 2/3 of the school year for 3 hours a day.

What on Earth is wrong with the great comprehensive school nearby that you would subject him to this? Comprehensives have highly academic top sets, you know!

Either send him locally or if the Grammar School Bug has such a hold over you, put your money where your mouth is and move nearby.

[TheRedBarrows]

“Apparently he was often late though.”

And how stressful is that for a child?

Stress, commuting exhaustion , lack of social and extra curricular opportunities, long days away from home : how does all that support academic achievement?

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

The irony is that many of the DC in grammar schools continue to be tutored, so their results aren't just the product of a superior (or perceived to be) super-selective grammar school education, or inherent intelligence but also due to continued parental investment by parents in their DC.