Mental Health in Grammar/Private Schools

[chocolateorange101]

Hi all, I would like to start a thread regarding mental health at high achieving schools, but first I should give my experience.

I am sorry to say that I completely regret sending my dd to Tiffin Girls. She has recently been diagnosed with a serious mental health condition and is a completely different person since joining the school. She has received no support from the school whatsoever, she is just told that 'everyone experiences stress' and is forced back to lessons. The majority of the teaching is also abysmal, as she spends hours at home teaching herself in order to achieve 'pass marks' in the test, otherwise she is given a detention and forced to retake it. The homework seems to be set just to fill a quota, and is hardly ever looked over in the lesson, although they are expected to spend hours at home each night studying (according to their homework timetables). Every pupil in her year seems to be constantly on the edge of a mental breakdown and completely exhausted, and I am horrified at how the school brushes it off as normal. I sent her there to receive a high quality education in a supportive environment, but of course the school will get good results with intelligent girls with motivated parents and extensive testing. A lot of my dd's teachers just print off worksheets for them to do for the full hour in almost total silence, which I don't think anyone can consider teaching. She is often told to go around and help the class or explain at the front, a job which I think should really be the teacher's. In recent years they have cut down on trips, immersion days and bonding, with every focus on exams. Additionally, she recently received a commendation for maths in which she was congratulated for succeeding on a topic she supposedly 'found extremely tough'. However, maths is her best subject and I know she found the topic quite easy, she was only given it because she asks questions in the lessons. Most of the girls are afraid to do so because of the judgement they face from the teachers, which I sadly understand.
The girls themselves are lovely, I have never heard of any bullying and they support each other, but I struggle for any other positive words about the school. It is certainly an exam factory; they seem to care about nothing else, and I strongly believe that if every student was questioned about their mental health the majority would have a serious problem.
Ultimately, the school cares more about handing out detentions and homework than the actual wellbeing of their pupils, and I wish I had never sent my dd there.

I would like to hear other experiences and maybe some advice about this kind of stuff, as I'm not sure whether to withdraw her from the school or just stick it out until A levels.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

DS is at one and I don't think the boys are over stessed at all (from what I hear). Certainly DS wasn't but there again he didn't perform brilliantly in his GCSEs. He's working much harder now but still not stressed. Agree that many of the DC, super bright though they may be, DO have tutors all the way through school to ensure that they do get those top grades.

[CraftyGin]

If you are looking for state sixth forms near Shepperton, St Paul’s Catholic in Sunbury, Salesian in Chertsey, or Heathside in Weybridge are worth looking at.

I don’t think you will get much of bursary/scholarship from the independent schools, although it is worth asking.

[PettsWoodParadise]

I have seen schools go in cycles of complacency to really working hard at dealing with the challenges that go with high achievers. DD is loving her SS Grammar but I know it's had problems in the past. The girls are supportive of each other and the school nurtures this giving and caring attitude as they know it is so important. There is a qualified school counsellor on site with whom the girls can book appointments with 3 days a week.

Importantly the girls have a huge opportunity for outlets in things very non-academic, on one day alone they had the following (all optional) activities:
 Mock Trial practice
 Gospel Choir practice
 Knit and natter
 Afro Caribbean society
 Cultural Food Stall
 Biology Masterclass
 Movember fundraising
 Coding Club
 VoxCC (a singing group)
 Year 7 Science Club
 Rehearsal for the Sixth Form Revue
 Y8 charity Card tournament
If it is all focus on academics it is not going to be healthy, just as we go to work, it is also important to do other things - just not too much!

[giftsonthebrain]

Jane i doubt this comment " And nor do my kids" if they are young they might not know now but give them a few years and they will know exactly which of their classmates are cracking under the pressure. and they too might join in some of the unhealthier ways of coping (self harm, vomiting etc.) just to see what it's all about.
personally i think mental health is more important than educational achievement.

[blackeyes72]

I am in exactly the same boat and i am just in the process of pulling out my year 9 dd1 from academic selective independent.

For her it has been truly awful. Doing well academically but hates the pressure, many girls falling our, crying in the toilets and miserable, lots of fallouts, etc

Dd1 is going to a small non selective independent but I am sure she will get the same results as she is driven and self motivated.. Just needs a calmer environment!!

[BubblesBuddy]

Just because most DCs don’t get all high grades at “lesser” schools, doesn’t mean the brightest DC will do less well than they should do. It is perfectly possible to achieve highly but there are just less DC that do. It doesn’t lower any possible achievement. My DDs went to a lesser school but one did just as well as many at Tiffin. If they are happy, you actually gain!

[Greenleave]

If the pressure is too much then ofcourse, her well being is the most important, pulling her out to LESS pressurised environment is the only solution now( doesn’t mean that she has to lower her bar for the rest of her life, its just for this time/period, it will serve her better in the long run). The pressure for high achievement is always there(Eg. so many suicides over the years from Investment Bank traders around the world or loads of mental health issues with surgery doctors).

If its mild and only because the school has done absolutely nothing then I hope the school read this topic or is there a way you could escalate it further if you think the councillor and care could help the situation rather than the nature of the school is a hothouse one( but its one of the highest achieving school so no wonder).

Wish your daughter all the best, its such a difficult time to such an important decision.

[JaneR0chester]

I have DDs at a different super selective grammar and I'm hesitant to comment on the mental health of the pupils in general.

My DDs are highly strung, but I think they would be like that at any kind of school - they're self-motivated, perfectionist and live in a bubble where all 9s are achievable I think they need to relax a lot!

Having said that, the school is certainly filled with many many teenagers who are not confident, uncertain and fear failure (whatever form that comes in) - it may be that our school has a disproportionately higher number of these teens, but I have no way of knowing. And nor do my kids.

I'm sorry that your daughter has not enjoyed or thrived at Tiffin, yr 10 could be a difficult time to move but I guess that depends on how un/happy she is? Definitely see what else is available for 6th form, if only to see that Tiffin might actually be the best place after all.

[HPFA]

I guess one of the issues with super-selective schools is that they will inevitably attract a lot of girls with similar driven personality types?

DD is at a girls comp and one of her close friends is definitely of the very driven, anxious kind. And she's actually said "HPFA Junior, how do you stay so calm about exams and stuff?" HPFA Junior could actually do with being a bit less relaxed about exams (grr). But it might be good for her friend to see that there is life beyond.

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

Sixth form is a different ball game to 11+ entry. Lots leave because they want a different environment, others just because the school doesn't offer the courses they want. Loads of DCs in your area will have guaranteed places at Esher and will move for 6th form. So start looking at local schools that were not available at 11+ entry.

Salesian in Chertsey is a very good RC school. Heathside and Gordons in Weybridge. Waldegrave should be commutable but I don't really understand the Shepperton trainline. Contact schools now.

Thinking about it for your DD I would be loathe to go for a scholarship at an Indy because I think it would put her under pressure to perform. The opposite of what she needs.

[OnGoldenPond]

I would definitely recommend Esher College, DS has just started there. High academic standards but very friendly and supportive.

Be aware though of the early closing date for applications- it is around the end of September in year 11, so next year for your DD.

[BubblesBuddy]

Girls who are struggling at Tiffin really should not consider St Paul’s. They would not be a shoe-in due to school report. St Paul’s has the pick of the very highest achieving girls, who are not having health problems, for 6th form. So I agree with others who say to look at schools with a lower entry standard but who can nurture a child with anxiety. This is often a better route than an academic hot house.

[bluejelly]

9/10 I think it's better to be a high achiever in an average school than to struggle (for whatever reason) in a high achieving school.

[Cauliflowersqueeze]

Sorry your daughter is having difficulties but I don’t think you’re in a position to judge that the “majority” of teaching is “abysmal” unless you are a senior leader at the school who is observing first hand a huge number of lessons and has got a lot of evidence from across all departments and all year groups that only the minority of lessons are “not” abysmal.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that on a public forum about a school in the way you have based on the experience of one student in over a thousand who are on roll.

If the majority of teaching was “abysmal” or “inadequate” then their Progress 8 score which shows the progress students have made since joining the school, regardless of ability, would not be 1.18 (well above average). You can’t fake that outcome.

Why not book a meeting with the Headteacher and read out what you wrote about his/her school here, and ask for advice/support.

[TheExtraGuineaPig]

If she's really anxious Halliford take girls in the sixth form. Obviously they don't have reputation for especially high academic achievement but probably that's to do with the children who go there at the beginning.. strikes me as a school that would help a child who was suffering from stress become more rounded and relaxed.

I have just seen you're not looking at independents - a lot from Tiffin go to Esher college or Hinchley Wood for 6th form

[Aethelfleda]

Have you considered William Perkins (SWPS) in Chertsey (if they do sixth form bursaries: you’d have to check)? Had friends who have just started their DD there in the lower school but the sixth form is apparently vibrant and welcoming.

[Glaciferous]

SPGS is very very competitive to get into at 6th form.

Yes, obviously, though I would not have thought that a Tiffin girl would struggle too much. But my point is that even the very sought after/competitive schools offer good bursaries so if OP has any schools like that near her that she thinks have good pastoral care that she may have previously ruled out because of cost, it is worth asking.

[HomeMadeMadness]

My DC are primary age so am watching with interest. I did tutor a friend's daughter who was at the local girl's grammar and she found the support awful. A friend of hers took an overdose (fortunately not enough to do any long term harm but a genuine cry for help) while she was in hospital the school put a lot of pressure on her to return to school quicker. The impetus seemed to be to get motivated, reasonably bright students, apply pressure and get good results.

[chocolateorange101]

Thank you everyone for the help, it is greatly appreciated. I am wary to move her now in year 10 as she is very socially anxious and struggles to make friends. She was bullied at primary school, but now has a really supportive group of friends. I know she will do well anywhere, but at the moment I think moving her will probably only make matters worse

We will definitely be looking into other sixth forms, any recommendations in the Shepperton area?

[BubblesBuddy]

SPGS is very very competitive to get into at 6th form. If you want more stress, applying to them is the way to get it! It really is not worth that.

However, smaller, less welll known indpendent schools could be an option. I do not know the state schools in your area, op, but some will have decent 6th forms because Sutton is a high achieving borough, even without the Tiffin schools.

You could look at 6th form bursaries. However, existing pupils may also be able to apply so your income may not be low enough. Some give bursaries only to those way below the cut off point advertised due to competition for places. Where my SSis lives, the bursary cut off point was advertised as £35,000. In reality the school said £25,000 because they are innundated with applicants.

I would start looking for 6th form and be flexible about where. See which school might offer a bursary and, personally, I think schools full of highly driven girls and parents is not where you should be looking. At my DDs old school, there were a few high achievers for whom results mattered 100% but many did a reasonable amount of work, did loads of extra curricular and had a varied education. Many private and top performing schools end up as exam factories because of maintaining position in the league tables. However the best private schools give far more than this to the pupils. This is the ethos I think you should look for.

[dairymilkmonster]

I feel for you. I think that probably this is a how long is a piece of string issue with regards to schools - there will be great pastoral support all the way through to awful in every type/achievement level.

I went to a pretty mediocre comp in the 1990s. I developed anorexia nervosa. The school did absolutely nothing even when I was clearly ill (BMI 12), not even contacting my parents (who were in denial for ages). They did absolutely nothing about the bullying I had been experiencing prior to becoming ill, and when I went back to school after a term off, had no idea how to support me. I suspect this was all due to being overstretched, understaffed, lots of kids with bad behaviour problems and difficulties reaching basic standards etc.

This is one experience - a long time ago now.

I work in mental health and see lots of teenagers (I am in a service 14yrs +) from schools across the county. State, indep, boarding. There are a group from state schools with behavioural problems/social problems/drugs +/- mental disorders. Then those from either state (tends to be higher achieving schools) or private with depression, anxiety disorders, eating disorders. The two hot house independents in town produce lots of patients, but I think there is a bias because the referral criteria for boarders tends to be lower. One thing I really notice is that whatever school you come from, if you have support at home and your parents have realistic expectations for you as an individual this is a huge help.

My advice would be if your daughter is unhappy, strongly consider moving her. This is independent of mental health problems. Objectively a bright motivated girl like your dd will do well at any school, but not if she is unhappy or ill. So I would look to move her to somewhere more nuturing, and she will hopefully recover and still get good grades.
Best of luck

[Glaciferous]

cake, the cut off for a bursary at SPGS is £110,000 after which you receive nothing. I imagine other big name schools will be similar. I thought if the OP was on that sort of money, she'd probably already be considering that kind of school so thought the information worth putting out there.

[sydenhamhiller]

I am so sorry to hear your DD is feeling like this OP.

My DD1 is at a SS girls grammar, and DS is at a neighbouring boys’ one.

Both schools, but esp the boys one suffer from a reputation as exam factories but so far (y10 and y8) I would say their pastoral care for my 2 has been great.

DD1 is also anxious and a perfectionist, and very hard on herself, and I agonised (still do) about whether to put down the grammar or the very good local girls’ comp. She wanted to grammar, so grammar it was.

Now she is there, she is happy, had friends and is doing very well (disloyally, rather to our surprise!). I worry that she worries about her school work and when she has been particularly tearful have raised it with her heads of year who swept in, got in touch with teachers setting too much homework, put her in touch with the various pastoral / counselling people, and generally had a ‘little reassuring chat’. They have been great both time I have had to be in touch.

They also know what these high achieving girls are like, and tell the parents that we have to help them learn to fail and pick themselves back up, and there is a lot of emphasis on ‘good enough’ and resilience.

I am sorry you are having such a very different experience; does your daughter want to move? A friend moved her daughter from a co Ed academy to a single sex comp in y9, and her DD has thrived, despite being against the move initially.

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

Glaciferous - I went with scholarsips because I took "can't really afford" to mean the OP could do it with huge sacrifices, so I thought it was unlikely OP would get much of a bursary. Always worth asking though.

[Glaciferous]

Could you afford an Indy with a substantial scholarship? LEH won't be chucking money around because they don't need to but KGS and Surbiton will.

Our experience with bursaries is that even really really selective and oversubscribed schools will offer them to the right candidate. I had the SPGS foundation report through my door the other day and 12% of their girls are on bursaries, two thirds of whom get 100%. All the schools will take some children at sixth form. You should contact the bursar of anywhere you may be interested in and ask - it will do no harm.

Re local sixth forms, Christ's just sent their first pupil to Cambridge last year, Waldegrave and Grey Court are really popular and I personally know children who have been to all three of these schools and enjoyed their time there. Can't comment personally on any of the others nearby.