Worst set of GCSE results possible at private school (really)?

[Vanguard121]

At DS’s inde boys who are less academically able but good at sports have the option to study for a sports BTEC, on the proviso they achieve Bs and Cs in their GCSEs/iGCSEs.

DS is on course to secure mostly A*s/As (and a few Bs) in his GCSEs. He’ll clear the benchmark for A-level study at the same school with some ease. But as for some of his friends… we’re not so sure.

But it got me thinking: what are the worst set of GCSE/iGCSE results ‘achieved’ at a selective inde or state grammar?

A friend’s DD achieved 4Bs 4Cs at another local inde a couple of years ago. She was distraught on results day but the school made no apologies, explaining that she had achieved far better results than she would have done at a Croydon comprehensive.

Still, I think of her poor parents after having shelled out 75 grand over 5 years…

[roundaboutthetown]

Urgh. I feel exhausted just thinking about all these parents wanting their children to enter every Olympiad going and complain to the school about the inadequate Latin/maths/history teacher who is wasting their money with his presence. I'd be running for the hills and screaming for my freedom from that pressure cooker.

[happygardening]

IME there’s good bad and indifferent teachers in both sectors I don’t think you can generalise. The best teachers DS1 has was at a small not great prep school and a weLl regarded state 6th form college. DS2 would say his beat teacher was at Wiinchrster a man incapable of even sticking to the general curriculum let alone teaching to the test. Both experienced pretty poor teachers in both sectors as well. Recentky I’ve observed numerous lessons with teachers in state schools they very much “teach to the test (shitloads of past papers” although no revision guides. Im under no illusions im sure you will se the same thing in many independent schools especially the less selective one but whose parents believe paying buys you top exam results.
The one thing I do know is that parents are very quick to complain about poor teachers in the independent sector and expect something to be done. Parents stumping up £40k PA in school fees have very limited tolerance to poor teaching and certainly in super selective independent schools they expect also their DC’s to be being taught beyond the curriculum and being entered for Olympiads etc and to be successful. I was recently reading my DH’s old school magazine (a very well known independent super selective) their considerable success in international Olympiad’s etc was trumpeted in the heads introductory article as a indicator the quality of the teaching and that lessons weren’t just about passing (I)GCSE’s etc.

[Ladymargarethall]

Oh dear. I have often suspected that Stripy but part of me didn't want it to be true.

[Stripybeachbag]

You can't assume teachers in independent schools are excellent teachers and teachers in bad schools are aren't any good. I have worked in both type of schools. You can get excellent teachers in very poor state schools and poor teachers in independent schools.

I currently work in an independent school and it's all about getting in the money. The head puts money into where it can be seen. No-one cares about the teaching in the classroom. The teachers who are sensible teach to the test (shitloads of past papers and revision guides - it's not hard). Honestly once you get a job in an independent school and your face fits you can coast for years.

[happygardening]

"No it isn't. Bright well supported children, however......."
The $64million question is would a "bright well supported child" have done better in an excellent school with the majority of teachers who are excellent (in either sector) than in an average school with mainly average teachers again in either sector?

[BertrandRussell]

"It is not a given that bright children do well anywhere."

No it isn't. Bright well supported children, however.......

[eiderjane]

And hard work.

[eiderjane]

As a teacher of GCSE and A level MFL in an independent school, I can tell you the students who work hard do well and those that don't work hard do badly in exams. I have had boys with dyslexia, dyspraxia and autism gain A grades in GCSE French because they worked their socks off. My son started revising every day for his GCSE exams from January - he gained 1 x 9, 4 x A* and 3 x A.

[drspouse]

I went to an independent selective school and some pupils left with no O levels (though one imagines for social not academic reasons).
I'm about the same age as Prince Edward, applied to Oxbridge, I didn't get in and would NEVER have done so with those A levels. At least the younger royals are going to universities roughly commensurate with their results.

[Ladymargarethall]

How did Prince Charles and Prince Andrew get into Cambridge with such poor A levels? 😂 I think the clue is in the name.

[BubblesBuddy]

It is not a given that bright children do well anywhere. All children need good teaching to thrive. Poor teaching will bring results down. It’s inevitable. As does a whole series of supply teachers, lack of subject specialists and poor advice on subjects for A level.

Also you cannot compare Lincolnshire Grammars with a comp in Oxford unless you compare the actual A levels taken. In Bucks there are secondary modems that are way better than the comprehensive schools in nearby counties that have kept the brightest children because there are no grammar schools. The area a school serves and how it manipulates intake is also important.

[Ladymargarethall]

Anasnake not impossible.😁

[Ladymargarethall]

D D's friend, who went to a Croydon comprehensive, came out with As in everything, got a first at University, a PhD and now lectures at the same University. I think she illustrates perfectly that people with brains and the will to succeed will do so. Her parents chose to send her to the local comp because they believed it would make her a more rounded person.

[Anasnake]

Any truth in the story that Prince Charles' bodyguard ended up with a better Cambridge degree than he did ? Was told it by a Cambridge tutor but then heard it was a myth ????

[MarchingFrogs]

Harking back to the Telegraph piece proving how poorly the royal family do, academically speaking, I hold no particular brief for them, but it was from 2006. So before, for example, the York sisters obtained their 2:1 degrees. Or possibly, in MN terms, before one of them got a degree, since only one of them attended a Russel Group university. (The other one, Goldsmiths).

[TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap]

Whereas the standard of teaching at my direct grant girls' school in the 70s was pretty good, and so were exam results. But that tells us little about modern schools.

[NewStart1967]

Talkinpeece the standard of teaching at my very expensive gels boarding school was also appalling. Bar one teacher of Latin, who was lovely. I remember her lessons with joy but the rest, dull, dull, dull. A few of us did well in our exams in spite of the teachers, not because of. In fact, the History teacher used to turn her back to us and say "Copy this down" and then spend the entire lesson writing on the blackboard while we copied it. No discussion, nothing.

[Talkinpeece]

GCSEs did not exist when I went to school
BUT
At my private, selective gels school
at A level
out of 40 pupils in my year, 17 had to retake to get into their desired courses.
The highest achieving girl in my year (who is now quite famous) is incredibly rude about the standard of teaching we had.

Anybody who thinks that private school magically makes things better is utterly kidding themselves

And I deeply resent the insinuations about comp kids.
Both mine are doing pure science degrees at top200 universities
better then I did

[TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap]

People always talk as if all state schools are the same and all independent schools are the same, when it's obvious even from this one thread that they vary a lot.

Some private schools are very academically selective, some aren't. Some specialise, whether they advertise it or not, in children who wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance in passing the 11+ or getting into a very academic independent school. What they provide is small class sizes, individual attention, good SEN support (the better ones, anyway), orderly environment and wraparound care/extra-curricular activities. If the child passes the key GCSEs so much the better. You can't judge a school like this by the same standards as (say) St Paul's Girls' School or Westminster.

Similarly, when it comes to state schools, many are great and do a good job with children of all abilities. Let's not pretend, though, that all do.

[Tinty]

A friend’s DD achieved 4Bs 4Cs at another local inde a couple of years ago. She was distraught on results day but the school made no apologies, explaining that she had achieved far better results than she would have done at a Croydon comprehensive.

Still, I think of her poor parents after having shelled out 75 grand over 5 years…

They must have had an inkling though with mocks and previous results of tests etc, I would have thought.

Maybe as the private school said she would have done much worse and come away with E's or U's if she had gone to the local comprehensive.

A friend of my fathers was asked to take his Daughters out of the local private school and advised to send them to the local state school instead, because they couldn't keep up with the work and were falling further and further behind.

I thought this was quite sensible because, why pay a lot of money to educate your daughter's privately, if it is just being wasted as they were not going to achieve any differently than if they had just gone to a state school.

But another friend pointed out it was a way for the Private school to get rid of the students who would bring their results down. I suspect they make the selective entrance tests harder to try and avoid this.

[lebkuchenlover]

Still, I think of her poor parents after having shelled out 75 grand over 5 years…

But just imagine what grades she would have achieved if she had gone to an underperforming state school with large classes, disruptive behaviour and less good teaching?

Maybe the 75 grand was the best investment they could have made!

[SleepingStandingUp]

yes some brains are inherently wired better but that is a rarity
If Envt was all that was needed then there would be no kids doing crap at private and kids doing well at comps.

I was a very smart child. I was raised in the same family as my sister who was average. Same opportunities toearn and in fact she possibly had more as our parents were together for more of her life. We went to the same school and had largely the same teachers. I I'd considerably better than her at the same age, and most of my class bar one other kid who had had a turbulent childhood and was now in Foster care so had moved to our school. There was othing environmental to make us more orchid like.

In contrast I then went on to a very good school where at GCSE level we beat Eton on results. I did fairly average compared to classmates getting all A*'s. Our teaching was identical although obv larger variety in hgomelife, mental health, tutor support. I still did better than my sister. I'm def only a daffodil though 😂
Clearly daffodils and orchids was an off the cuff largely jokey comment but I do think seed quality is important even if less so than the soil and water.

[happygardening]

"The extracurricular activities and confidence building opportunities that private education provides are a real plus point, but they aren’t absolutely necessary for a successful life."
That depends what you define as "success" my science math orientated DS2 was free and encouraged to build on his long held passion for the arts in the widest sense of the term whilst at his senior school due to their extensive daily non examined curriculum and numerous extracurricular activities. He and others would say that "art heals". He has through his young life experienced three significant bereavements in a short period of time and I'm proud to say with the help and support and I believe his love of art is successfully navigating his way through his grief.
I also genuinely that art literature music can change how we look at the world and those around us it can make us a more rounded individual this may help us be be more successful in our relationships our jobs as well as our ability to cope with all the things that life throws at us.
There is also plenty of evidence that exercise/activity is good for our MH again hopefully enabling us to successfully navigate our way through life developing an interest in a sport often starts at school when hopefully we have more time.
On a daily basis I sadly see children with MH concerns many are very serious may have poor coping mechanisms or useful/beneficial outlets for their unhappiness. I frequently wonder and worry about how they are going to manage as adults when they will have even less support than that have now so maybe "extracurricular activities" that "private education provides" are more than a "real plus point,"

[lyndar]

@Emilyontmoor agree with what you said

[lyndar]

@SleepingStandingUp Absolutely, but it will oy even be a daffodil, not an orchid. Not everyone is able to be an orchid / brain surgeon / rocket scientist / straight A* student
I disagree with that -I think environment is essential- yes some brains are inherently wired better but that is a rarity