State primary to independent secondary school

[Happysummer]

Key point: my daughter (aged 8 in year 4) has a talent for sport. She is achieving several years above where she should be for her age and has recently been invited to a pathway group for the county team. We are considering an independent day school in Winchester due to sports facilities, coaching and the extra-curricular activities they offer which are far above any state school.

Am I naive to think she could get a scholarship and bursary?

More details: my daughter is bright, with English (average ability) and music being her weaknesses, but maths and science she is working above where she should be and she shows great understanding of how things work. She loves performing, being part of choir and glee club. Her passion is for sport though. She does well in PE and the last few years has been one of the chosen few to take part in the selective relay races on sports day.

We've got a prospectus from the independent school and booked for an open day in March 2019. She couldn't take her nose out of the extra-curricular activities booklet they sent! The school describes itself as 'appropriately academic' with a big emphasis on sport. I like this as I wouldn't want DD in an overly pushy academic environment.

Bottom line, we are looking at independent due to sports facilities and smaller class sizes with less disruptive pupils. I've read she may be at a disadvantage with the Common Entrance exam as she hasn't been to prep school. Is this really true? I don't understand what the difference is (other than smaller classes/more attention).

We couldn't actually afford the fees, so we'd need them to really want her and offer a bursary of at least half the fees.

Please enlighten me! Neither DH nor I have any experience of independent schools.

[Happysummer]

Thank you everyone. I confess I was disappointed to learn that about 40% of British Olympic medalists came from the 10% in private education (or statistics along those lines). It seems unfair not everyone has the same opportunities, but it would seem she does have an opportunity to apply, so I'm leaning to the attitude that it would be our own fault if we don't try. But we need to make it clear it is a possibility only, and admittedly unlikely.

I do think a nice bonus, but not the main reason for going independent, would be the smaller classes and less disruptive pupils. She is in a class of 33 and she can be easily distracted. She also moans frequently about the 3 "naughty boys" in the class who don't do as they're told and who ruin class activities. I've been speaking to the deputy head about a celebration assembly at school for her sporting achievements. When I told her about this, she said "I didn't think he (deputy head) knew who I was". It's not the teachers fault, but state schools do have more to do with I think.

One final note, speaking with DD about heroes, I asked her if she has a hero. Her answer "no-one. I think I'm my own hero. It's up to me". My jaw hit the floor!!!

[KingscoteStaff]

I’ll use St Swithun’s as an example.

The 11+ sports scholars (including those with bursary support) over the last few years have nearly all been competing at county level in one of the school sports (netball, hockey, athletics, swimming or cricket) and at Club A team level in another.

The problem with niche sports (fencing, gymnastics, diving, girls’ soccer, waterpolo, even tennis) is that the training at the school is often not enough for a child competing nationally.

This means that parents have to organise additional training out of school and this can clash with school training/matches in the ‘core’ sports which all sports scholars would be expected to attend.

An example of this would be DN at Wellington - National tennis competitions meant that she was not available to represent school in certain athletics and hockey matches which the school felt was her responsibility as a sports scholar.

[Happysummer]

Kings fab information thank you.

Yes, it's St Swithun's we are looking to apply for. I'm not sure if she does qualify for a sports scholarship then, but sounds like it would put restrictions on her which may not be beneficial. We may be best applying normally for only the bursary with her being a good all-rounder and motivated/able to pick up sports. I guess that's a conversation for the open day.

[TeenTimesTwo]

If you were thinking state, then if you live in Southampton I think it is unlikely you would qualify for any of the Winchester state secondary schools because you would live too far away. (Though you would need to check 'last distance offered' info.)

However depending on where in Southampton you are, you might well get into one of the two good secondary schools in Romsey (Romsey School and Mountbatten), both of whom run buses from Southampton. Romsey School at least takes a significant % from out of catchment.

[Hersetta427]

My daughter plays a niche sport too. She played county under 11 at 9 and at 10 was in the regional team that won the national title. Now at 11 she is on the development pathway for the National team. However when I looked at all the sports scholarships they all needed to be in a sport that was one of the schools major sports (netball, hockey, swimming etc).

I doubt she would get better coaching in her sport than at her club which is one of the best programmes in the country. So as an alternative she got a sports aptitude place at one of the top state schools in the country and we continue out of school with her coaching.

The school may support her but may not be willing to throw money on a scholarship and bursury on a sport that does benefit them - can I ask what sport it is by the way?

[Rudi44]

My DD went from state primary to indi secondary on a combination of scholarship bursary and part fees. She is there on an all rounder scholarship but is also at regional level in her sport.
Her school offers her opportunities in her sport that even the very best state schools locally couldn’t match.
We qualified for a 30 %bursary on top of the scholarship and I wouldn’t say we were low income by any means. By many of the parents at the schools standards we definitely are, but actually we feel reasonably comfortable. I know individual schools are different but I guess it comes down to how much they want your DD, it’s definitely worth going through process if you find a school you love and just see where you get to.

[Happysummer]

From a bursary point of view, our joint income is £47,500, we both work, the car is a ford Mondeo 10 years old, we have a two bed terrace house (so the kids have to share a room) but we do have £90k equity. Although it's not as if we could downsize! No savings and some credit card debt. Currently pay £610 a month in childcare for after school club and nursery for the youngest, so we could pay a similar amount in school fees as youngest would then be in state primary. I guess it would come down to if they want her...

[BubblesBuddy]

There are independent secondary schools that give scholarships for niche sports. At my DDs old school, girls held scholarships for sport in athletics (world junior champion), gymnastics, tennis, trampoline as well as hockey. They would look at anyone who was seriously good. They didn’t seem too bothered about the sport. Sports scholars had coaching and fewer lessons. Bursaries are fairly generous. It’s not near you but is boarding. If you don’t apply you’ll never know! This is why so many sports men and women are privately educated. They are, effectively, recruited to these schools.

[Happysummer]

Yes, it's not just the facilities but the fitness coaches, nutritionists and support dealing with how to compete/dealing with failure and the general mental attitude needed for sport, looks far superior to state schools.

They offer 20 different sports, with six core sports. The prospectus states about sport scholarships "They should be able to take part in two or more sports preferably having reached county level or higher. Ideally the girl's expertise will be in one of the school's major sports. However, other sports currently played would be considered as would outstanding ability in a sport not currently offered at the school." Now what they think is outstanding probably means at national level by age 10!! But they do mention they are looking for potential too, so the child may not have the achievements yet.

DD is very sporty, often performing better than others in PE (certainly in athletic races as she's one of the fastest in her year). She did baton twirling for a year and competed in the IBTA international competition gaining a 3rd place in team poms. She can also swim, but not particularly strong, so we are on a waiting list for private one to one sessions as we think this is an important life skill and nothing to do with possibly applying for an independent school.

At the moment she is on the development pathway group training with the Hampshire team, and her coach at her club is a Hampshire coach. I would hope that if we apply (depending on what she thinks of the school from the open day) all this would make her desirable, along with the strong (but not gifted) academic results.

Her primary school limits clubs to a maximum of two per child, so everyone can apply and get a place at something, so she is doing art club and computing club (although wanted to do more!). At age 5 she signed herself up for choir and we only found out at parents evening! She spent two years in choir and one year in glee club which included performing at the annual music festival at a local theatre (though no starring role as she doesn't always sing in tune!).

The application form has literally two lines to fit one sentence about sports activities and extra-curricular activities. I'm going to need to do a covering letter to write about hers!!

[Hersetta427]

I would concentrate on what sports she currently does and to what standard (ASA level for example) or is a member of an athletics or running club. The fact she did baton twirling for a year and was in a choir at age 5 won't really matter.

[BubblesBuddy]

If she doesn’t sing in tune, don’t go overboard on musical ability. She’s not that good or different from many regarding singing and no musical instrument as yet. Enthusiasm is not necessarily talent. However, enthusiasm is a great attribute.

I think you need to get her to choose her two sports. I assume one is athletics and then the other could be hockey. They are going to like development squads etc. Sometimes schools take pupils at 13 and these can be sports scholars. Often at 10/11 they have not done enough for a glowing cv. They also award to existing pupils where the school has overseen their talents for a couple of years.

[Happysummer]

Thanks. Yes she's not short of enthusiasm but we do have to reign her in and explain she should concentrate on what she's best at!

Yet another question was going to be; how much detail do we put on the application? Is there only two lines because they only want the most recent/most important skills or is it a test, where if you only fill in the space provided you aren't doing enough?!

I see no reason why athletics can't be built up at primary school or join the school netball team as they need recruits, or even have her swimming greatly improve, but I want her to want it, not push her into it.

You make a good point Bubbles, even if she didn't get in at 11, she may have achieved enough to try again at 13.

[Hersetta427]

I agree you probably need to let her concentrate on just one or two sports - don't spread her too thinly as she may just end up average at all of them except her main sport.

You say you think she would be good at netball as she is tall however does she possess good catching and passing skills, can she move well off the ball and /or is good at shooting ? If she shows promise at school then she could join a netball club (as to be honest the standard of school sports at primary school is quite low - especially in smaller schools where they don't have a large pool of kids to choose from.

You may even need to consider what sport would look good on an application (maybe one of the more common team sports) as another more minority sport may not be helpful as her main sport is so niche.

[Happysummer]

I appreciate all your responses, helping me to understand this process.

The six core sports are; Lacrosse, netball, athletics, tennis, cricket and swimming.

Of those, netball, swimming and athletics are realistically what she can do (I do think she may be very good at Lacrosse actually but it's not as if she can join a team at a state primary). As a GD in netball at school myself, I remember only standing with my hands up to block passes (being tall). So balls skills depends on her position I suppose (I'm being cheeky)! I'll have to talk it through with her and ensure she understands a sports school will expect several sport abilities.

[Happysummer]

Sorry forgot to say, her primary school has 500 pupils, so fairly large with several sports team which is great.

[LIZS]

Is there a lacrosse club locally or do the independent schools offer holiday training clubs in team sports. These are good ways to try different sports out and are often run by staff and people who have played at national level. At 11 they are looking for potential and core skills (hand/eye, teamwork, agility etc) as much evidence of current levels. Having said that if your dd is already on an elite programme you may need to consider how that training and competition can coexist with the school's expectations of her representing them.

[Happysummer]

Why didn't I think of that LIZS?! Quick google has found there is an activity camp which offers lots of sports to try at the school during holidays. The next one being Easter, and they do her sport! Rather than the usual school holiday club, maybe it could be a good taster of being at the school and trying new sports plus getting to practice her own sport (albeit private company who hire out the school by the looks of it).

I'm starting to think she may not want a sports scholarship as it may take her away from her main sport. She trains 1-2 times a week at the moment, with competitions being held at weekends (the private school is Mon - Fri so no Saturday school - again another plus point).

[Hersetta427]

Cheeky and a little insulting as good quality netball is far from just having to have your arms in the air rooted to the spot.

Your posts do all seem to mention what she could or might be good at (netball, lacrosse, swimming) without having actually done anything in this regard. Maybe therefore you need to concentrate on running is she has already displayed a talent in this area. Sorry if this sounds harsh in any way - just trying to be realistic.

[Happysummer]

Appreciate your point Hersetta. And I definitely wasn't good at netball, so I've no doubt quality netball is more than I did.

I think I'm clearer on what we need to do if she wants this to happen. As you say, get out there, try some sports and see how she progresses. We can then come back to if she's suitable to apply or if she's best suited to state school with outside clubs to support her on her journey. By the open day in March she may then clearer about what she wants and be able to ask relevant questions.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed whilst I air my messy thoughts to you all. I don't want to place it all on her shoulders but at least be able to guide her.

[BubblesBuddy]

The DDs who followed very specialist elite sport programmes were allowed lots of time off. Neither did they play hockey every Saturday. You don’t get to be a junior world champion in athletics by playing hockey every weekend! If someone is a serious athlete, it’s serious training and school accommodates!

[Rudi44]

Swimming is very competitive, the highest participation sport for girls. My daughter is regional level and there is a lot of competition at this level and above. In my experience you won’t get a sports scholarship based on being ok at loads of sports, you need to be exceptional at at least one. The school will be thinking not only about how this exceptional child will compete for the School but also about bragging rights for little Tilly or whoever who is the junior champion for fencing or gymkhana.