Chav chants and violence at Whitgift

[googoogaga1]

Hi,

Until I learned of the recent nastiness from Whitgift parents towards John Fisher School’s team and their parents at a recent home rugby fixture, we had set our hearts on putting DS2 forward for the Whitgift 10+. He was a talented dual-code rugby union and league player for his prep school back in Oz and Whitgift really appealed both on the academic and sporting fronts.

However, the incident with JFS has left a bad taste in our mouths, especially given the press coverage the incident received. DH was a pupil at John Fisher back in the early 90s when the school was ‘selective’ and used to play Whitgift and Dulwich and the like regularly. He says there was never any of this kind of nonsense between parents or the teams. While we had considered JF for DS2 before moving back to the U.K. (coming from Oz), we were advised by friends that the school had changed considerably from back then and how DH may remember it. Both DH and I (public non-selective state school in Queensland) have no problem with DS2 attending a regular type school so long as the academics and sporting culture are strong, yet Whitgift just seems light years ahead on all fronts.

Am I being silly to let an incident like this bother me? I really don’t want to consign DS2 to a school which lords it over his state school contemporaries. Are Whitgift parents arrogant and class conscious? Are John Fisher parents these days regarded as ghastly peasants or ‘chavs’?

[questionsneverstop]

BunnyCake, just like camden, clapham south, shepherds bush.....

[BunnyCake]

Just to mention that Whitgift is a 5 minute car/bus ride away from central Croydon which has regular stabbings. Not an exaggeration to say they are regular.

[propatria]

Whitgift isnt a public school,its a private school in Croydon,its a decent rugby school but certainly isnt "the school to beat",Wellington and Sedbergh have already done that this season,it doesnt play in the Champions Trophy which is the RFUs top schools competition,at the moment in the most accurate school rankings it doesnt feature in the top 15

[CherryPavlova]

I’m also thinking it’s Croydon and having been to several fencing competitions there, it wouldn’t be my choice.

[Plessis]

I appreciate you are worried, but if you are choosing to send your child to an exclusive private school then you are supporting the us and them ethos. There will be parents and boys who think that state school pupils are chavs. That's what you are paying for.

[NastyCats]

I would be as concerned about the quality of the education that the year 8 boy was receiving at a private or public school that would lead him to make such a statement as by the obvious moral and social ignorance he was displaying!

[91Waterproof]

Sadly a friend's son, on a full bursary at a school not unlike Whitgift and not a million miles from it, came home one day from school in Year 8 last year, and said "Mummy, anyone who doesn't go to private school is a chav, aren't they?".

[googoogaga1]

Out pruning the bushes,

Let's hope it was 'the little scamp of a lad' who got a place at John Fisher !

I'm sure the boy from the posh part of town could have afforded to go private anyway...

[outpruningthebushes]

John Fisher was a most terrific school during my time there. I suppose what really stood out was that parents were so committed to a selective single-sex Catholic education, that they would send their boys from far and wide, or even consider relocating altogether. That was affirmation - if it were needed - that we were providing a type of schooling Catholic parents struggled to find in the state sector.

I will never forget one time when a young lad (accompanied by his parents) came through my office door, ''Miss, Mum says I can come to this school if you let me in'' - council estate, Penge, but bright, cheeky, a bundle of energy, sharp as a whip.


With one place left in that year's allocation of 100 boys it was between this little scamp of a boy and a more polished candidate from the Webb Estate (An expensive neighbourhood close to the school).


Care to guess who won a place?


Whitgift pupils would need a gentle word now and again to remind them of their privilege. Having said that, there were many boys on scholarships and bursaries at the school when I taught there once upon a time. The school was by no means a haunt for toffs.

[Racecardriver]

It sounds like the parents are a bit new money and painfully aware of it and they passed on their insecurities to their children. We have a slightly new money private school near our house. Many of the parents are a bit like that. I wouldn’t bother tbh. It will be just as bad as a state school. I would look for a better school. The boarding system here is much better than in Australia so I would reccomend you consider the option if it’s with your price range.

[HappyHippyChick]

“And by the way, if rugby is one of your interests, the John Fisher School recently won the national rugby award and received the honour of being named 2017 Rugby School of the Year.”

And was the only state school nominated.

[questionsneverstop]

You can also read the last ofsted report.reports.ofsted.gov.uk/provider/23/103009

[HappyHippyChick]

There are no interviews for JF. There are no questionnaires about parents incomes or occupations .

It’s a long time since your husband was at school and things change rapidly in school admissions to make entry as fair as possible. Although I think the English school admissions system (I don’t anything about the rest of the UK) still leaves a lot to be desired.

JF is a Catholic school and as such there is a form to be completed to show that you regularly attend mass and that your son has been baptised, along with the Local authority application.

[questionsneverstop]

googoogaga1
Exactly my point. Despite being able to afford them, I won't send my kids to those schools. Not all of them, but some are very snobbish (as you can read in this thread)so I would really recommend you to visit them and get a feeling of who you want your kids to deal with.

And by the way, if rugby is one of your interests, the John Fisher School recently won the national rugby award and received the honour of being named 2017 Rugby School of the Year.

[googoogaga1]

DH said John Fisher used to ask parents about their occupations and incomes at the interview. His parents had to make a financial contribution each year to the school. I assume this is no longer legal like the interviews themselves?

If a public school (state) in Australia operated its admissions the way JF did until recently there would have been bloody uproar. I'm surprised how much of a minefield English schools admissions are. It's surprising as I assume the tax payers in England fund state schools? How can some state schools be allowed to select based on how much money the parents earn? Have I got that muddled?

Still not sure about Whitgift. We can afford full fees but would like private where the parents are down to earth like me and DH...

[outpruningthebushes]

Questionsneverstop, I will PM you. No offence intended.

[HappyHippyChick]

I’m a JF parent and I am not a chav. Neither are any of the other parents that I know.

[MrsBertBibby]

You could take a look at Riddlesdown Collegiate. A friend's son did very well there, academically and at rugby. Non selective (bar a very small percentage who take a test).

[BunnyCake]

Hi
www.gov.uk/school-performance-tables
Enter the school name
Click secondary
Enter 2017
Scroll down to prior attainment

[91Waterproof]

Bunny - could you share a link to where to find that prior attainment information - I've searched the DfE website but can't seem to get myself to that exact information regarding the different bands of student. Thank you.

[questionsneverstop]

Outpruningthebushes, apologies I read your comment twice and I cant stop wondering whether you are just saying that JF deserves to be called chavs just because the school is not selective anymore....
Please correct me if I am wrong.

[BunnyCake]

Agree there are a lot of bright kids in Surrey comps. A friend has dc at Weydon in Farnham which has 61% high attainers

[Bekabeech]

There are places other than Croydon. In fact the nearby county of Surrey has no state grammar schools, so it's Comprehensives have children of all abilities.
Doing away with "interview" and selection could be seen as a good thing if you think Catholic schools should cater for all Catholics and not just those from "nice middle class" backgrounds. And as for being used by Preps as a nice not as selective destination...
Lots of Catholic schools whilst taking all Catholics are doing very well in league tables etc. (The religious ethos and close ties to church seem to help.)

[TheBlessedCheesemaker]

Have attended a number of rugby events at Whitgift (including this year) and have never seen loutish behaviour from spectators, so imagine it was a one-off. In 30 years of attending rugby matches from kids touch to internationals (pretty much one a week at least during every season), I’ve only seen poor crowd behaviour 3 times (once at a county final, once at a school match and once st an international), and all instances involved advanced refreshment levels.
The Whitgift teams themselves are as disciplined and respectful as you would expect any excellently coached squads to be. Whitgift are currently ‘the school to beat’ on the rugby circuit (Dulwich not so much any more, although historically they have been up there with sedburgh as one of the best rugby schools in the country). My DCs have always had a great (and bruising) time playing against them. No idea of John Fisher but imagine it was a one-off for them, too.

[MrsPatmore]

Plenty of other independent schools to choose from but don't dismiss Whitgift until you've seen it.