School discipline out of hand

[mydogmymate]

My son started in year 7 this year and so far has spent 2 weeks of that in either detention, isolation or excluded.

The school is in quite a deprived area and had a very bad OFSTEAD report two years ago. This has prompted a behaviour policy that, at best, is severe and at worst, draconian. My ds got a detention initially because he was talking in class. I didn't have a problem with that and supported the school, but because he spoke in detention he was put in isolation. Whilst there someone shouted him and he looked round, he was sent to reception and I was phoned to pick him up. That was on Friday. So today, he had to do isolation and a detention and I get another phone call to say pick him up because he's excluded. He won't be allowed back till I've had a meeting tomorrow with the head of year 7.

I got angry with him and told him to tell me the absolute truth about what happened and he's adamant that all he did was turn round at a noise outside and leaned into his bag and said to himself that he'd forgotten his ruler. So that led to his exclusion because they are expected to work in absolute silence all day.

I've never had any issues with his behaviour at his primary school and I'm furious that this is happening. It's not just him: it's about 40% of year 7 have had this happen and most of them have no idea what they've done wrong. I'm sick of talking to the school about it, I just get told that this is policy. End of. There's no leeway anywhere, no easing them in, no understanding and I think they're expecting too much of kids just out of primary.

Now he doesn't want to go to school because he feels he can't do anything right. I phoned the education welfare officer out of desperation & she told me that this policy is city wide and even if I moved him, the same would happen in another school.

So, any advice on what to do at this meeting tomorrow? I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall & I've got a very unhappy son who wants to leave. I'm not a snowflaky parent, if he's done wrong then he can accept the consequences, but this is a ridiculous policy, it smacks of a workhouse!!

[Cauliflowersqueeze]

I would be really surprised if 40% of the year group have been excluded.


Sounds like he’s being quite cocky.
Tactic 1: minimise what happened “I just turned round”
Tactic 2: get other 11 year old chums to back you up
Tactic 3: get parent to believe you
Tactic 4: get parent to side with you

[azaleanth90]

Similar problems here. I’m totally in support of clamping down on disruption but cannot get my child to keep quiet. He just doesn’t control himself whether I talk about how much it matters, withdraw treats / screen time, or what.

[Finfintytint]

Your son sounds like a real pain in the sphincter. Low level disruption impacts on those who want to get on with their education.
Maybe think about supporting the school's policy on not fucking about in lessons and knuckling down.

[owabno]

It's quite interesting that your son has been repeatedly punished, at increasing levels, for the same thing, yet you are picking fault at the school.

He sounds like a proper arrogant shit, complete with the matching nightmare parent.

All you are doing is fuelling his disruptive behaviour.

[BackInTime]

There are several kids like your DS in my DCs class - chatty, disrespectful and disruptive. It takes up half the lessons dealing with them all and others miss out on learning. It also puts the teachers in a bad mood as they are constantly having to put up with this from kids who think any punishment is unfair. Fun things that have been planned for lessons are abandoned.

How about you stop looking at your DS as a victim and consider the impact his behaviour has on others?

[hettie]

Sounds like you're school have put in a behavioural management strategy and are sticking to it. Ds's school did this 2 years ago because they was a huge problem wth disruptive kids. Some parents feel it's 'draconian' and 'punititve' and somehow unfair. I however felt it had been unfair on the non disruptive kids for somectime. In addition, the expectations are very very clear and available for all to see. In fact you would be unable to enter the school as a year 7 and new parent without having those policies made clear to you (and agreeing to sign up to them). So you can't rely complain it's not fair.... Your son must have been aware. If he can't control his behaviour in class and you don't think he needs to you're both going to struggle. Perhaps bus him to a school out of area? Or do you think he might have some underlying differences that need assessment/further support?

[admission]

Think you do need to assume that there is more to this than your son has stated and ask the school for explanations.
However in asking the school for their explanations of what he has done wrong (which I suspect is more than has been reported) you also need to be asking the school a few questions about their knowledge of the discipline guidance. Firstly you say you have been asked to come in and remove your son in school time a couple of time. That is an illegal exclusion. Paragraph 14 of the exclusion guidance refers to this and says they must be recorded. They count as 1/2 day fixed term exclusion.
You also refer to an exclusion which you have received no paperwork for. Again the guidance is clear, there must be written information on exactly what the exclusion was for and for how long.
The school can hardly justify running a strong disciplinary system if they then go and break the guidance and law over exclusions.

[Foxyloxy1plus1]

Whilst you’re fed up and annoyed at the moment, I would go into school with as open a mind as you can muster. It’s very early in his secondary school career to be getting himself a poor reputation, whether or not it’s nustified.

Listen to what they have to say, put forward your perspective and the hope that this can be turned around.

[MaisyPops]

detention for disrupting the class
detention for talking in detention
Isolation for talking in detention
That's how I understood it.

Add in 'but I was only... His mates say... all the parents are demanding answers' and I can see entirely why the school has got a new behaviour policy and clamping down.

[Homemadehopeful]

Did you meet with school today OP? What did they say?

[mydogmymate]

Hi homemade, thanks for asking.

The school admitted that they were too harsh and they are re-evaluating their policies. He's done the isolation and detention because he deserved it.

Result!

[SnuggyBuggy]

Hopefully he accepts he was in the wrong for talking in class and is able to move on from what happened.

[owabno]

The school admitted that they were too harsh and they are re-evaluating their policies

They are re-evaluating their policies, based on you complaining, about your child being punished repeatedly for the same thing

Madness.

[Biologifemini]

If you don’t like it then keep him at home or send him elsewhere.
I am not surprised schools are doing this. My mother was regularly physically intimidated when she told children off for minor backchat and got fed up with it.
If you don’t come down strict then it will continue. I am sure he will learn.
Your aim should be to get him the best education possible so he is fortunate to go to a school with a zero tolerance policy.

[mydogmymate]

The re-evaluation is not because of me complaining, it's to do with how it was escalated. He's now done his time and hopefully it won't happen again.

[Rebecca36]

Sounds seriously creepy. Find him another school and btw it's OFSTED (Office for Standards in Education & more), not OFSTEAD. Looks like you could do with a bit of education.

[owabno]

Creepy??

[BrownPaperTeddy]

I find it very difficult to believe that 40% of year 7 have been internally excluded and that the same level of discipline is happening at every school.

There will be a published behaviour policy and you will be able to see how sanctions can be escalated. Have they followed the policy? Keep in mind that persistent low level disruption can lead to permanent exclusion eventually.

[MaisyPops]

Brown
It is possible. I reckon the figure was close to that by Christmas one place I worked. But then again verbal abuse multiple times a lesson was also standard, as was truanting, smoking, getting out the secured site, assault on peers, assaults on staff.

When we (thankfully!) got taken over by a new sponsor they took no shit. Literally it was a case of sweat the small stuff.
Shirt untucked? One reminder. Failed to do it? Defiance and same day detention (all students were walking distance and the new management made this clear). Repeated defiance? Internal isolation.
Verbal abuse to staff? Exclusion. (Hence how you get the sob stories of 'my child was excluded for having their shirt untucked'. Reality is staff give a simple instruction, child tells staff to fuck off because they wouldn't dare and walks off)

I can believe the figure for isolation is that high. Sometimes it's needed. Relentless consistency until people get the message that rules aren't optional and they are there to learn.

[BrownPaperTeddy]

@MaisyPops

Obviously I accept what you are saying but 40% of year 7 in internal exclusion within 4 or 5 weeks of starting at school? As a governor with nigh on 20 years experience that shocks me.

Clearly if behaviour is that bad at this school then the staff are right for coming down hard. Not much learning is going to happen in such an environment.

[MaisyPops]

BrownPaperTeddy
Fair point on the time frame.
I forget we're only 5 weeks in. (it feels like we're already about 3 months in)

P.s. yes. Very little learning did happen there under that regime. SLT were of the view that we needed to praise our way to success. Apparently having vivo reward points and dishing them out like candy for barely scraping functioning, reasonable human behaviour was going to be the key to hitting the floor standard for the first time in the school's history (and a good 5 years in previous versions of the school)... that and planning engaging lessons to hook the students. Never was I so happy to have a strict school improvement type school take us over