Which school would you choose?!

[BooksintheBath]

School 1
Single sex boys’ comprehensive.
Former grammar school with excellent local reputation until a controversy in the school early this year which triggered an Ofsted report that came back as inadequate (previously Outstanding) identifying issues linked to safeguarding and pastoral care – still has huge local support and the school seems to be having a very positive, proactive response to the Ofsted.
Reputation for being academic and extremely sporty.
Setting in most subjects from start of Yr 7 (based on SATs and CAT testing).
Masses of amazing extra-curricular stuff.
Ten minutes’ walk from our house.
Links to DD’s girls' school including co-ordinated term dates which really appeals especially as they finish early in the summer!

School 2
Mixed comprehensive.
Ofsted Good.
Reputation for having a caring, inclusive, holistic ethos, but academic results are also strong. Some issues with bullying in the past according to local rumours but seems to be less so now. I really liked the open evening, which talked a lot about seeing each child as an individual, personal best etc. It feels a bit scruffy but welcoming. A lot of people I know are a bit snobby about it but I also have several friends who are very happy with it.
Mixed ability sets for everything until Year 9.
Five min walk plus 20 minute bus ride from our house, limited buses on return journey so it would make after-school clubs a bit of a pain.

DS is very bright, strong in maths and literacy, particularly good at writing, and absolutely loves to learn. He is a creative, gentle, thoughtful boy, always drawing and loves music and dancing. Not at all keen on sports although will have a go at cricket. He’s got a strong group of friends at primary school but there have been tendencies in the past for him to be the one left out because he’s a little bit different.

I think that school 1 would suit him academically as he would most likely be in the top sets, there’s a culture of it being cool to learn and he would enjoy many of the extra-curricular opportunities (he was swayed by the Warhammer club at the open evening!) However, I am worried about him not fitting in in a very masculine atmosphere, and having to fit a mould. There’s a lot of talk of ‘We know how boys learn…’ ‘We know that boys love books with facts…’ 'We know that boys like to run around...' etc etc which feels a bit like a one size fits all approach and doesn't seem to apply to my boy!

I like the individuality of school 2 and could see him being very happy there. He is very self-motivated and I wonder if having a bit less pressure would serve him well. However, I know that mixed sets are sometimes not so good for very able children. I’ve heard of kids being teased for being ‘geeky’ because they want to work hard etc.

Urrgh! I realise we are so lucky to have a realistic choice of two good schools but it’s so hard to choose!!

Sorry for such a massive post! I'd really welcome any opinions.

[elkiedee]

Good luck BooksintheBath

[BooksintheBath]

Just wanted to update you brilliant people after you offered me such great advice – DH and I went to visit both schools consecutively on Friday morning (normal working mornings for both schools, not open mornings) and it turned out to be a very revealing thing to do as it was SO different to the open mornings, and the atmosphere and welcome was very different in each school. It made our decision much easier (confirming what was already my gut instinct!)

Sooo . . . I've just submitted our application form and put school 2 as first choice. DS seems happy with this although I am braced for wobbles further down the line as I know his two best mates will go to school 1. But I am absolutely confident school 2 is best for him.

Now just the small matter of the next 5 months to wait and see if he gets in!

Thanks to all of you again for your help and good luck to everyone else in the same boat!

[elkiedee]

I would choose school B. One thing mentioned in the OFSTED report about school A is the lack of information about how they've spent the Pupil Premium and assessment of the impact on closing the attainment gap between disadvantaged kids and others. This isn't just something that they should be able to tell OFSTED, there should be information on the school website about this. I would be concerned that a school that isn't doing this properly not only doesn't care about the kids they receive PP for (and that would be a concern though it wouldn't include mine), but that the school's finances may not be being efficiently managed (see also the general request for parents to set up direct debits).

My kids' primary was once at the bottom of the league tables and my dad said I had to move DS1. I didn't and things have completely turned around since then. But at its worst the OFSTED report was nothing like the one for School A.

[cantkeepawayforever]

One sometimes revealing test is to site yourself near the exit of the school at going home time (I did this totally by accident, and was surprised by how revealing it was).

Do the crowds of pupils stream away from school in talking, laughing, jostling but basically orderly groups, behaving in the main like decent human beings to one another and those around them? Or is it more physical - bag swinging, lots of pushing and shoving, lots of inconvenience to other pedestrians and road users? Is there a predominant 'mood' or 'type of interaction', or is it clear that there are lots of different groups who basically rub along together fine? Do you see, even in that brief snapshot, unkind behaviour, or is it generally OK but maybe a bit of inter-friend silliness? Can you imagine your DS in amongst them this time next year?

[Trampire]

Had ones = bad ones

[Trampire]

It's a big decision OP. It's understandable. I tied myself in knots about secondary school with my first Dc. I think I didn't about 2 years in an anxious state, frantically measuring schools against each other, going to all the Open mornings I could without telling many people!

The difficult thing I found is finding an objective opinion. In my case I found way too many people telling me 'stories' they'd heard from a friend of friend of a friend (normally had ones) .....especially when they found out I was perhaps considering a different school to them.

I'm sure whichever school you go for will be right for you and your ds in the end. Good luck x

[BooksintheBath]

'Retaining his particular individuality' – that's exactly what I want for my boy too. Your son sounds wonderful cantkeep and it's great to hear he is thriving.

Thanks Rudi and Stripey, it's great to hear more positive comments about school 2.

Thanks again everyone for all the encouragement/advice. I've become so wrapped up in it all that I'm even boring myself, and this thread has really helped me to see what really matters.

[cantkeepawayforever]

He has maintained a bunch of utterly lovely, quirky, very highly intelligent friends - the sort about whom everyone always says 'children like that get bullied in comps', though none have ever been bullied - of both genders, throughout the years when boys and girls traditionally 'separate'. Again, it is a function of the mixed nature of the school that such a thing is possible, indeed seen as absolutely the norm.

[cantkeepawayforever]

On a personal basis, DS is bright, quirky [to the point where when younger ASD was suspected, though he is NT], musical, sporty, spiky academic profile, gentle, sensitive.

We looked at an academic boys' school for him. The overt masculinity - even for a boy who played football to a very high standard several times a week - was something he shrank from, and he would not have thrived there.

He's been at a mixed comp, which like your School B sets relatively little (Maths Y7; Maths, English & Science Y8; humanities added in in Y9; during GCSE years the core subjects - English, Maths, Science -are set and the rest are mixed ability within a loose structure for timetabling purposes (so e.g. all those who do 2 languages are in a single French class, so that one is slightly stronger) It has served him very well and he has developed in all sorts of ways while retaining his very particular individuality.

[Stripeybum]

Having personal experience of both schools I would definitely go for school B every time. They definitely are as they purport to be - caring with a very strong community feel. School A appears to believe Ofsted were wrong and that would concern me long term

[Rudi44]

For what is worth I have only heard good things about School B. Like any school, comp or private I am sure it has its issues but the parents I know that have kids there are all pretty universally positive, similar to comments that I hear about your DDs school.

[BooksintheBath]

Thanks cantkeep. Everything you’ve said makes a lot of sense.

Definitely leaning heavily towards school 2 now. Only worry is we might not get in!

Thanks so much to everyone who has posted

[cantkeepawayforever]

Sometimes, when there is a 'shock' report like this, a head hangs on, with plenty of 'we chose this school so of course it is brilliant and can't believe Ofsted would think differently' parents and governors supporting them.

Then it goes one of two ways following the next Ofsted:

• The school bounces back up to its previous grading, either because the first one is heavily based on short-term events / downturns in results or because the school works its socks off to improve: the head stays on or retires in exhaustion having re-established stability
  

OR

• The grade remains below its historic level, with continued focus in the report on areas of weakness still not being addressed: the head leaves.
  

Could go either way in this case. You won't know until your DS starts, if he is in Y6 now - the next inspection would be due around the end of his first term.

[BooksintheBath]

Yes, completely appreciate that catslife. And the doubt about how the school will change/react is definitely a major factor in our decision. It does seem counter-intuitive to choose a school that is going through this, despite what friends/other parents say in support of it.

In this case I'm surprised the head is still hanging on, seemingly with masses of support.

[catslife]

OP You may think that the reporting isn't fair, but schools do change a lot after an inadequate OFSTED rating. It's possible that these changes may be some of the factors that you state as reasons for preferring it.
The culture of many schools is very dependent on the Head and if they leave (which given the inadequate rating for leadership is likely) there will be big changes.
I have seen it happen at other schools and to assume that this school is a special case really isn't fair on those other schools/Heads either. In those schools Heads and teachers lost their jobs and were replaced. The governors were also replaced. The school(s) a year (or two) later were significant;y different to those at the time of the inspection.
If it's still your preference fine - but there WILL be a significant amount of change in any school in this position and just wanted to make sure that you are aware of this.

[BooksintheBath]

Thanks again for all your thoughtful comments, they are all really helpful and this is giving me lots of food for thought. I liked the relaxed vibe of school 2 again at the open morning today but DS, although he says he likes both, was noticeably more excited and fired up last week after seeing school 1.

I think I will try to see both schools on a normal (non-open) day and try and ask a few more questions of teachers and leaders.

It turns out that there is more setting than I initially thought at school 2 – they are set for maths at the end of year 7, and for science and humanities in year 8. I wasn’t clear about English, I think maybe not until Y9, but saw a Y8 English class that was mixed ability. It all seems quite fluid though – a science teacher told me that sometimes they wait and see what the year group is like before deciding what to do about setting. That seems a bit vague and I’m not sure how it would affect my DS – obviously cohort is an important factor and one that can't be predicted.

catslife and Trampire - the local paper has been massively out to get school 1 and I honestly don’t think the way everything has been reported has been fair. That headline in particular was pure sensationalism and related to wording that has to be included on an inadequate Ofsted report. The school announced at their open evening that they will be joining a MAT.

Bubbles thanks so much for your insight, it’s given me some good questions to ask.

[Trampire]

I agree with Catslife after reading that article. Something wouldn't sit right with me about the "everything's fantastic" line they're pushing. That article was from this last July too.

With all things considered I would still go with School B.

Hope your open mornings have proved a bit more useful.

[catslife]

Hmm bet school 1 aren't publicising this headline to prospective parents www.somersetlive.co.uk/in-your-area/beechen-cliff-school-could-close-1787246.
We are in next door LEA and my dd has done well in mixed sets.
I would put school 2 as my first choice given the uncertainty about school 1. There could be changes in management which may affect setting policies etc.
I would have a look at a 3rd school as well. The situation with school 1 could affect admissions areas this year.

[BubblesBuddy]

Bright motivated children absolutely do not do well anywhere! That’s a prime reason why some schools are failing. They fail the brightest by poor teaching and not being aware of what the brightest need to succeed. However I don’t think you will have to worry about poor teaching though as the school in question is not failing for that reason.

[BubblesBuddy]

I don’t know the schools but I can tell you about schools post Ofsted. There are few schools who have had this type of report who would shout from the roof tops about it! However they will be monitored by Ofsted and I would bet a lot of money that they are not complacent. They simply cannot afford to be. It would be suicide. Often, after there has been a sharp wake up call like this, schools really do leave no stone unturned to change. You can always ask how they are addressing the criticism but lots of schools don’t make detailed info public because it could identify staff. However they could share the general points of their Improvement Plan and if they did this by talking to prospective parents, then that’s fine. They will change. They know Ofsted will be all over them and they have to improve so your DS would find an improved school.

Many boys’ parents do choose single sex schools. They are very successful around me (although they are Grammars) and not remotely short of boys wanting to go.

I can assure you that not all the boys will be sporty and macho. That’s simply not possible! I agree that not offering drama is a shame but Bath will have Drama clubs if he really wants that. There is an outstanding theatre I believe. There should, however, be other avenues for performance at the school. My school was co-ed but the sporty kids were the Gods! It’s a fact of life in many schools but there should be lots of other ways to find success in the school, eg tech clubs, music, art etc. No school is all about the macho boys otherwise the others would run a mile, and they don’t. What sort of boys are your friend’s boys? Are they mixing with all sorts of boys? Don’t forget rhetoric is rarely 100% true!

[underneaththeash]

Definitely school 1. Mixed sets do not work in classes of 30+ especially at secondary level.

[Laura0806]

I would place a lot of stall in your 'gut' feeling about where your son would be happy. Research evidence on mixed ability teaching shows it doesn't disadvantage the brighter students but helps the middle and lower ability. It wouldn't be my choice for a very bright child but if the schools gets good results ie there are students who are getting the top grades I wouldn't let it put me off if your overall impression is that it would suit your son better. Bright motivated students do well anywhere. School A would probably suit his learning style better but if a child is not happy they certainly won't do well. I'm going through the same decision making process at the moment so I sympathize!

[SnuggyBuggy]

I think it depends if the pastoral/safeguarding stuff is a deal breaker. Mixed ability teaching can be pretty crap for more able students so that would really put me off.

[BooksintheBath]

Rudi Yes it's RA