WWYD? Very close to removing DD after this

[ConfusedMum82]

DD started at secondary two weeks ago. She has fitted in well and made friends with the girls in her form.
For background, she didn't have a great time of primary, she was very badly bullied (actual physical beatings, threats which led the Police to raid the home of one culprit due to their nature).
In year 5, we de-regged both our DC, and DD was home schooled between April and July last year as she was so damaged by school she wouldn't step foot in one for months. Luckily, Year 6 primary school were amazing. Truly miracle workers, caught her up on years worth of maths (she had no knowledge of year 3-5 maths curriculum) and she grew in confidence.
Obviously, we knew there would be nerves joining secondary, but we kept her positive, she went in first day and every day after, big smiles.
Until Friday of last week.
DD after the bullying, wont immediately tell you something is wrong, but its pretty obvious as she goes from smiley kid to coming home and disappearing under a duvet. You have to coax out of her what has happened. By Sunday we found out a child not in her form, but in science, has been off with her. Verbally abusive. They were put in a pair to conduct a practical (to be put in sets) and the child sat and did sod all. DD just got on with it, but at one point the girl knocked a glass out her hand and then told the teacher she deliberately threw it on the floor. When DD denied this, and the teacher didn't tell her off, telling the other girl to shush and get on with her work, she threatened to burn DD with a bunsen burner. DD didn't say anything as she said she doesn't want a rep as a tell tale.
They then had a Clubs Fair, DD wanted to sign up for a few, this same child followed her round, threatening DD if she signed up for any clubs. At one point, DD's friend from primary, who is about 6 foot tall bless her, stuck up for DD and for a bit walked her round. As soon as she had to leave, the child started again, DD then got told off for telling the child to leave her alone as she shouted at her, HOY7 heard and told her off (didn't think to ask what had led DD to shout).
Tuesday, and DD went to her first Gym after school club. The child was there, and punched DD in the back as they changed. DD went to club, tried to ignore it. All through club, child made punching her hand motions to DD, so DD went back to get changed early. Child followed her (seems to be no supervision at all). and punched her again, so DD called her a bitch, which she fully owns up to. Other girl (friend of nasty child) heard and told DD not to be rude to her. DD came home very upset, big bruise on her back. She had also had her lunchbox and homework folder and notebook taken from her bag.
So, I emailed HOY7- school asks you to email rather than call. Told pretty much straight away that it would be dealt with, statements taken, etc etc.
Got a call yesterday that other child says she did punch DD, but DD punched her. Then it was changed later on to DD punched and kicked her. I was told as a result, both girls would be sent to HT and torn strips off, and teachers had been "warned" about the girls!
In the meantime, DD spoken to by other girls who went to other child's primary and told her to be warned that she is a bully, horrible, a known thief who stole money from a classroom assistant, all manner of horrible things.
I asked the HOY7 to allow me to speak with DD as I really didn't believe she would have kicked or punched this child, if anything I had to persuade DD to attend the club. Was told this wasn't possible, even at lunchtime, but I could speak to her after school and email back. She also told me no one else would speak to either girl until this had happened. I again said about the delicate nature of handling this as she had been scapegoated before, was told they fully understood.
DD comes home, girl has been awful all lunch time again. She then said a male teacher- not HOY7, not DepH, not a HT, just a random who she doesn't know, pulled her out of her last period lesson, frogmarched her over to their "calm centre" and asked her again what happened. DD again repeated what she told me, the HOY7 and her class teacher. Random male then reads out a "statement" from a pupil (didn't tell her who) which says DD punched and kicked other child. He then told her the school "doesn't like liars", she needs to "admit it, now, or else you will be in big trouble".
Possibly the worst way someone could speak to her frankly.
I emailed as asked the HOY7, explaining she could speak to two girls who saw what happened, both Friday and at the club, and asking why on earth did this male behave in such an intimidating manner to DD.
Now had email from DepH going on about "asking stakeholders about incidents to get a clear picture" (he actually put in brackets stakeholders are staff and pupils) and other such mumbo jumbo. Both girls are still be taken to HT and told off. Luckily, DD isn't in today, she has worked herself up to a level of upset I've not seen since the worst level of abuse at primary, she wont eat, she didn't sleep last night, so she wont be in, hence why luckily, for this dressing down today.
I don't know where we stand. I'm starting to feel like we are back at primary, where she would go in covered in bruises and cuts and the HT would then blame her for being in the same playground and not being resilient enough. Was meant to go to Open Evening with DS today but I don't even want to send DD back let alone another one of my DCs.
Sorry, know it's long but I'm just so annoyed by this.
I would understand if DD had a record of violent behaviour or lying, but she doesn't. Seems very much that the other child does though which they are ignoring, they wont speak to other's who would back up what DD has said, they haven't even answered about the theft or the male member of staff intimidating her despite my being assured it was dropped until I spoke to DD, it's just fobbing me off.
Feel like I really did pick the wrong environment and now have a child too scared to go to school, again.

[ConfusedMum82]

To be honest I knew anyway, as the bully had bullied a girl DD is now friends with it didn't take long to hear all about her. I mentioned I was aware that she had been as bad if not worse at primary and she said she was glad I knew this wasn't an isolated case, or DD at fault, but these things do follow them to secondary so she wasn't surprised we had already heard. I said I was just pleased that finally someone would help her as she clearly can't be happy, and she said that it was good to hear that considering all that has happened.

[oklumberjack]

Just read your thread OP. I have a dd in Y9 and a ds just started Y7 and my heart was in my mouth while reading.

Thank you for the update. I'm sorry it took you so long to get there but I'm glad this has been resolved somewhat. After the suspension of the bully I'm sure any further incidences will be flagged up immediately.

Good luck to your dd. I hope she enjoys the rest of the year from now on. Hopefully this will have given her the sense that she can stand tall and be confident in who she is.

(Btw my ds is shattered and we've luckily not had any of these problems to deal with!)

[LIZS]

Well done for persisting although am shocked they have divulged so much about the perpetrator.

[ConfusedMum82]

Thought I would update
Investigation was done by HT, it actually took a week so at first I thought they'd forgotten!
Turns out, HT has told the HoY7 that she messed right up, it was clear to all the story of the incident had changed twice at least and this is clearly unacceptable.
Random male teacher also told that he should not have taken it upon himself to drag DD out, turns out he is Year group Behavioural team leader ) hence why he did. However, down to his haste to do what he's been signed up for, he didn't look at DDs history and admitted how it was intimidating and upsetting in light of it. He did somewhat blame HoY7 though.
The bully has carried on. She has been caught not being violent but locking DD in a classroom, and then being verbally abusive to DD at gym.
However, last night, DD came home with an almighty bruise on her arm, so I sent a photo to the HT.
Pleased to say bully has been suspended today, and tomorrow. She will not be included in lessons or lunch/break times but will be internally excluded from Monday morning.
Turns out the inclusion member of staff has looked into her history and this is nothing unusual for her. Sadly sounds like her primary let her down and did nothing so she now thinks she can behave however she likes at secondary.
DD now has a named person she can access at any time, but the lady I spoke to said actually teachers have nothing bad to say about her, she's picked a really good group of girls to be friends with and is doing well.
Good result and hopefully both girls can enjoy school and be supported as much as possible.

[ConfusedMum82]

I've spoken to her and explained we need her to go back. That she is missing work, and her new friends and, until this week, everything has been fine.
She was very reluctant, but I said to her that, just because of one, admittedly, not very well handled incident, she shouldn't give in to a bully.
I've had a response from HT, very polite, saying she fully agrees she needs to investigate and we need to meet, she has agreed this will be minuted, she also said we would arrange it Monday as she realises that clearly we have to try and get DD to agree to come back. She also agreed that this whole inevident has been unfortunate but told me she will personally speak to DD next week to help reassure her. She asked that we get her in Monday as she's a clever girl and they will ensure the bully is not allowed anywhere near her. So positive so far but we shall see what the meeting brings.
I think whilst they can argue that, as no one from staff saw the original punching we cant be sure who is telling the truth, they really cannot get out of the conduct of random male teacher. As I said when I emailed, I doubt he intended to intimidate her, but by not speaking to her with another adult present he has put himself in a position he would probably prefer not to be in. Also, he may deny what dd says he said or the context in which he said it, but again, this is why he shouldn't have spoken to her alone. I also want to find out why the HOY7 told me no one would speak to either girl, so who asked random male teacher to pull her out of class?
Hoping we can get her in as I agree, the longer she is off, the worse it will be. She's also happy as one of her new friends mum's has tracked me down on the parent forum and messaged on her DDs behalf, asking if she's ok and the group are missing her. Proof for her hopefully it's not all bad.

[notapizzaeater]

What's your plan off next week, as the longer she's off the harder it's going to be to get her back.

Hope you get something from the today to reassure them. I'd record the call and ask for a synopsis by email at the end.

[ConfusedMum82]

I emailed her back and said again that it's not just the assault which has upset her, it's been eclipsed by a male teacher taking her from her classroom, then accusing her of lying and threatening her with "serious consequences" if she didn't own up. I said in the email that he may not have intended to leave her feeling intimidated but he has left himself open to discussions on how a child- especially one who is vulnerable- has interpreted his actions.
I've said that we do indeed need a meeting and I would appreciate notes being taken, and that we will obviously try and work over the weekend to get her in a position to come back.
I'm to the point of telling her that if she's going to be accused of hitting this awful child when she hasn't, she may as well do so next time. I haven't and wouldn't but Christ I don't half feel like it.
I just said to the head in the email this has been a gigantic safe guarding cock up, and we are seriously disappointed.
DD went to pick her bro up from primary yesterday with her dad, she only went as she knew she'd bump into kids she was there with picking their siblings up (the other secondary finishes at 2.30, they have staggered start and finish or the roads in the area are gridlocked with school traffic), she saw her old DepH as well who gave her a big hug and told her to remember how amazing she is and how far she has come. I think she's as miffed as we are!

[Ionacat]

I understand why you want everything in writing but you need to go and deal with this in person or to be honest it is unlikely to be resolved. Take someone else there if you are concerned about minutes being changed at later dates. You then type up the notes and email them as I said in my previous post which creates your papertrail, put a read receipt on it or a please acknowledge you have received this email.
Ring back and ask for a formal meeting on Monday and do not discuss it on the phone. Then work out exactly what you want to know in your meeting and what you want to happen next. (A head would be non commital leaving a message.)

Yes the formal complaints process might seem long winded but don’t let you put you off and use it. I would have your meeting with the head and then if you are still not happy put in a formal complaint.

[maz99]

Confused,

I would suggest that you have the telephone call with the HT, and ask her for her direct email so you can email a summary of what was discussed and any future actions agreed - also request that she responds to the email confirming her agreement of your summary.

At least this way you go in to the weekend knowing where you stand for next week.

[HoppingPavlova]

These threads make me so sad. This should be a fun and exciting time for kids. This stuff should not happen. This stuff is just shit and I’m sorry you and your child are going through it.

Saddest thing is I wrote virtually this exact same text on another thread maybe a week ago. It’s horrible there should be a need to repeat myself in this way.

[Ginger1982]

I would have been into the school before now and demanded a meeting with the HT. Can you not do that?

[sashh]

If they have your mobile number for contact then you can put a call recorder app on it. Set it to back up to a cloud.

[Hadalifeonce]

Just for info, if it's any help. When some parents came into school after a formal complaint, we asked the clerk to the governors to take notes in the meeting. That way there was an accurate record of the meeting, which both the school and the parents had a copy of.

[BerriesandLeaves]

No wonder your dd didn't want to go in after being bullied/assaulted like that. I wouldn't want to either. And for her to be accused of doing the same must have been really upsetting.

[SnuggyBuggy]

I really hope you get a proper meeting sorted soon

[ConfusedMum82]

HT has just called, I let it go to voicemail. Ia had said on the message I left on the absence line that I would appreciate an email not call.
She was quite non committal just can I call her back, to discuss recent events. No idea what she knows.
I prefer email as with bad primary, they would ring and of course I had no proof of what was promised or said so they would always call or ask us to attend a meeting as then they can rewrite the facts at a later date (which they did several times).
I will email her back in a bit but I am going to suggest that they have really messed up.

[ConfusedMum82]

Well, couldn't get DD to go in today, even offered to let her go in early for breakfast (they do a huge fry up or bacon roll for a few pounds every day, she has seen them as she's been going in and getting a hot chocolate before form class). She got dressed, was on the sofa ready to be driven in by her dad and nope.
DH has let her off today, to be honest he is getting increasingly annoyed now.
Considering I emailed yesterday back to the DepH at 10.35, I've had nothing. No calls no email. It's like they do not care. They view the incident by the word of this little bully and they will not discuss it.
I had to leave a message on the absence line and said exactly why she isn't there. I also said I was seriously unimpressed with the lack of response and in my view they have wrecked the good work done by good Primary school over a year in a matter of days.
I've called LEA today in our borough (school is in next borough but the way the catchment works out both schools are same distance) and didn't go into details, but asked about the availability if places at their secondary. To put it mildly, there are none, she's in a school placement so tough. I did mention she was having difficulties and their attitude was work with the school. We had this before from this LEA when we moved them out the other boroughs primary, kind of felt like they thought we had chosen not to go with their borough so now they didn't want to know.
I've looked at complaints procedure but it's so long winded, and as with the bad primary, it's very much "if we accept it as a formal complaint". That's what they did, they would deny it was dealt with under their complaints policy, so we couldn't take it further.
So, now we wait.
I'm also in a situation now where I have a few weeks to apply for DS for his place next year. Not even sure where DD will be at this rate.

[Ionacat]

Admission is right and knows a great deal about schools and governors. You need to request a meeting with the school with the deputy head or head not just rely on phone calls and emails. This has gone beyond that. It is much easier to put your points across face to face as well. (Especially as you are finding that you are not getting all your points addressed in your emails.)
Find a copy of the bullying policy beforehand and keep refer to it in the meeting, make sure it is being followed or highlight where it isn’t. Also find a copy of the school complaints procedure and follow the complaints procedure to the letter if you wish to make a complaint. It should be on their website. Follow any phone calls and meetings up with an email to confirm e.g. when I spoke to you on x date and y time, you agreed this and this will be actioned by z. This starts a clear paper trail (that hopefully you won’t need.)
Make a polite but persistent fuss and keep following the complaints policy until you are satisfied (really hard when it is your DD and the natural response is Mother lioness.) If you don’t follow the complaints policy then it will just get passed back and you won’t get anywhere. The next step would usually be the head before governors - they will just pass you back to the head if you haven’t followed the correct procedure.

Really sorry about the start that your DD has had to secondary school.

[ConfusedMum82]

@admission sorry but you need to rtft.
I have spoken first to head of year 7, then deputy head earlier today. I would never just hear DDs side and no one else's, not sure where that's come from.
I heard from DD, reported it to head of year 7, she then looked into it and told me DD had been accused of pushing the other girl. She also said both girls would be spoken to by headteacher and told off. I then asked to speak to DD before this happened as in my view dd has never once hit anyone in school. She assured this was fine and neither girl would be spoken to until I spoke to DD and emailed after school.
Random male teacher then tells DD to leave classroom and go to another area within school, where intentionally or not he intimidated her, calling her a liar and threatening her of the repercussions. This was all reported back to head of year 7. She passed it to deputy head who has fobbed me off, has also said dd punched and pushed girl (so different story again, only one who has repeated the same to me each time she is asked is dd). He didn't comment on random male intimidating her, he didn't explain why head of year 7 lied to me, he won't explain why this child has a track record of bullying and yet she says DD has behaved the same to her and is instantly believed or whether she has proof of supposed assault. No word on the theft of DDs items either
So yes, I have mentioned safeguarding and that unless they can actually give an excuse for why a vulnerable pupil has been attacked, robbed and then intimidated and ignored by staff that I will indeed take it further.
Hope that clears up your "concerns"

[admission]

Sorry but reading your posts you now seem to have dropped the metaphorical atom bomb on the school by saying that you are going to the governing body, Ofsted etc, when DD has only been at the school two weeks. Reading your posts I am not at all sure that you have spoken directly to anybody in authority at the school (head or deputy head) about what you believe has happened and heard their side of the story.

I am not saying that these incidents have not happened, I am saying that you are only hearing one side of the story when the school is hearing both sides of the alleged stories and is stuck in the middle. You need to contact the school and ask in writing for a meeting with either a deputy head or the head on Monday, so that you can hear what they have to say about the incidents and what they intend to do about the incidents.
Having heard what the school have to say, you need to put in writing your response, which may well be that you find their actions unacceptable and that they are putting your DD in to an unsafe situation by not dealing with the incidents. You need to say this is a formal complaint that the senior leadership of the team have not exercised their duty of care or considered the safeguarding aspects of the incidents and address this to the Chair of Governors. By putting it in writing to the Chair, they will have no alternative to investigate and if you are detailing safeguarding issues to probably ask for advice from outside sources. But you need to go through a process and that entails getting a meeting with senior members of the school as a matter of urgency.

[ConfusedMum82]

Yes we've been reassuring her that she's not at fault, she genuinely thought we would go mad at her for using the word bitch, I just said it probably wasn't the best word to use but there are worse she could've used and in the circumstances it was rather appropriate. She's also been told several times that if she did push the girl, she can tell us, we would totally understand why she would have but she just got very upset and said again she didn't, so we haven't asked again.
I have emailed a follow up to DepH saying we feel this is a blatant safeguarding failure, that we feel they have disregarded DD and her right to go to school and clubs and be kept safe. I also made it clear that I would be speaking to the governors as I feel the school's attempt to apportion blame to my DD and treat her so badly as to remove her from class and have a teacher intimidate her is never allowed to happen again.
Thing is, as I told HOY7, it's difficult for her to lie to me. Since she spends time online, as most kids her age do, and she has a very basic mobile phone, she has (and DS) given me her logins. I check homework as this is all done online, I also check her online gaming account and her phone regularly. Not down to trust issues, more I don't trust others and know that the net and mobiles are part of her age group but it's very easy to disguise issues. She had text her mate from primary, and said she was really upset, bless her mate though who told her she's "kickass" and nice and that's why she gets picked on as this other child is jealous and to ignore her. It's helped to bolster her up a bit. At the height of the previous bullying and threats, I found a message the bully had sent her online, saying he would get her at school and his dad was going to blow our house up (Hence the police) so know We had can go on online.
I'm still waiting to hear back but would imagine with open evening (school closed at 12.20 to pupils to prepare for it) they're busy.
Will see what she wants to do tomorrow.

[SnuggyBuggy]

You need to make it clear to her that this isn't her fault, the bullies are doing this because they are bad people. Some schools treat the victim like they are the problem which just makes them feel worse and like they brought it on themselves.

Hope she feels better today.

[sashh]

Glad you are keeping her busy. Can you take the kids out for tea or for a treat?

And I think she should have tomorrow off as well, make it a long weekend.

[cestlavielife]

Gp record of bruise will count where your photo won't.

[cestlavielife]

Still go to gp might help push up wait list
And safeguarding
Escalate it.