School Trips

[Maranello55]

I would like to ask the community on the following unfolding scenario for everyones opinions.

I have two boys at Secondary school just finishing Years 7 and 8, and several weeks ago parents were sent a letter advising of an upcoming skiing trip next year. Both boys want to go, so I paid the deposit 20 mins after they opened up the system for taking deposits ! Job done I thought. All sorted.

But no....apparently....a few days ago parents are advised that because of an influx of applications that children will be selected at random to go on the trip, in some "Thanos" (for anyone who has seen Avengers : Infinity War) style random selection system. Needless to say one boy has been selected, and one boy has been told he cannot go. I do not think it right or fair when my payment was made immediately (I must have been one of the first) and I am now told that one boy cannot go. I do not find this fair at all. I also think it unacceptable to split a pair of siblings. Imagine you are a 12 year old boy and your brother and best friend have been accepted to go on the trip and you have been told you cannot go.

I personally think that this could have a longer term detrimental effect and that he will now resent anything to do with his schooling if the situation is not resolved.

What does everyone else think ?

[Maranello55]

You are completely over reacting.

From the outside, looking in, it would seem - with hindsight - they'd have been better offering it just to one year group in the first place, and there would be fewer disappointed, but there may be reasons I don't know about why they didn't do that. However, if you really have brought up and 11 and 12 yr old who aren't able to be separated from each other hmm then your answer is to withdraw the one who was lucky enough to get a place, from the trip. Does seem a shame for him, but that's up to you if you want to spoil this chance for him.

Im sorry, I disagree. I am not over reacting. If I have my act together and get my payment in early (remember I am paying for two children and it is not a small amount of money, and I disadvantaged myself financially to make it happen), then why should we be penalised for that in what is basically a game of chance. I followed the rules that were laid down, then the rules were changed.

This is not just about my Sons being apart (and yes they can handle that), but this is my younger sons entire friendship group also got accepted, he is the only one out of about 7 of them that has not been chosen to go.

Im sorry if people think that I am over reacting, but I do not think I am. If it was not for poor organisation I would not even be posting about this. It has just wound me right up, because I think it is unjust. I do appreciate everyone's responses though, thank you. It has made me think and I will temper my response when I speak to the school tomorrow.

[Maranello55]

I can just imagine the post from another mum... AIBU to be upset because my (only child) DC didn't get a place to make sure every pair of siblings both got to go...

Other sets of siblings have been accepted to go on the trip !

[BubblesBuddy]

Unless your school ski trip is wonderful, I would withdraw the DS that is going and go as a family. School ski trips are usually poor. Sub standard accommodation, miles from the ski lifts and hours on end in coaches. They’re not going to Verbier are they!? It will be some faceless concrete jungle!

Schools change ski trip destinations. Our school did USa one year, so that’s more expensive. They might be looking at Canada. You can give them a better holiday by doing it yourself. Then you know they won’t be separated!

[Walkingdeadfangirl]

Random allocation is a fair way to do trips, first come first served is not fair. Your children are not twins and they are in different year groups, you really need to let them develop different lives, your not doing them any favours.

They are more than old enough to comprehend and cope with the reason why one of them didn't get on the trip this year. There will be more chances for school trips.

Definitely over reacting. That parent.

[HollyGibney]

But no....apparently....a few days ago parents are advised that because of an influx of applications that children will be selected at random to go on the trip, in some "Thanos" (for anyone who has seen Avengers : Infinity War) style random selection system

This made me .

I don't know really. It seems the only fair way to do it but I would be gutted for whichever child didn't get a place.

[Walkingdeadfangirl]

I have not seen Infinity Wars, can anyone explain what a Thanos style random selection is?

[HollyGibney]

That parent

I honestly don't care if I am that parent. It's always used as such a terrible threat on MN "don't be that parent 😱"... sometimes you need to be and it's important not to shut down your own instincts with regards to your child, for fear of being slagged off a bit in the staff room.

[French2019]

Look, it's gutting for the sibling who didn't get picked, but life is full of these little disappointments and minor injustices. In the grand scheme of things, missing out on a school trip is no big deal - it really isn't!

The best thing we can do as parents is teach our kids to deal with these situations positively and constructively. Treat this disappointment as an opportunity to develop your son's resilience. Why not let him choose something else special that he can do instead of the trip?

Like you, I paid the deposit for our school ski trip within minutes of the payment system opening, as we had been told that it was first come first served. We were subsequently told that the trip was oversubscribed and that names would be chosen at random. Fair enough, I thought, not everyone has the option of paying straightaway. Even I might have struggled to pay as quickly on a different day. As things turned out, dd got a place anyway, but if she hadn't, I hope we would both have accepted it as being just one of those things.

Life isn't always fair, and you can't protect your children from every unfairness. Sometimes, you just have to help them find a positive response to a shitty situation.

[GreenTulips]

As far as I am concerned one of my Son's is being disadvantaged of the opportunity which is not fair or equal

I have twins - one went to Belgium one went to Wales

Both had a grate time - neither exploded!

Seriously get a grip ...... one missed out, if it wasn't himnit would've been one of his friends or some stranger

Maybe you could suggest a policy where you could judge who's worthy and who isn't?

It's a school trip ...... ask the parent who has to decide which one of her sons gets a kidney ..... and then come back and tell us about over reacting ..... nobody's died

[ReallyFastLoris]

I organise school trips and would think you were slightly un-hinged if you waded in complaining about this. And it would achieve nothing. I agree that it is annoying that they changed the means of selection during the process (we never do first-come, first-served). But we find levels of uptake do vary from year to year so maybe they were surprised. We frequently have to disappoint friends (or twins) who cannot go together; it's unfortunate but part of life.

[orthepotofbasil]

You're overreacting, for all the reasons given above. Stupid of the school not to make its oversubscription criteria clear from the outset though. At my school we have this constantly about clubs, and we always make sure we are crystal clear about the process (apply by X date, then a draw if oversubscribed). Unfair to do first come first served, it favours SAHP or those in jobs where they're able to hover over their phone all day. Re the sibling thing, we patiently explain that we treat all children as individuals. Otherwise how is it fair that the family with four children in the school takes up four places in the club with a maximum of 20 places? We still get loads of complaints though . My favourite has been 'It's unfair that you made the booking start time 7pm, because that's my child's bath time'.

[Bezm]

I would send the older one this year and the younger one next year. I don't believe it should be first come first served, that automatically excludes someone who may have been off ill and not got the letter the same time as everyone else, or the child whose parent can't pay a deposit immediately. Random selection is much fairer. Actually, booking enough places for everyone is the fairest way of doing it, but in the real world that doesn't happen.
I'm sure your youngest will get over it and you could always spoil him a little when the other is away!

[haba]

I also wish to know what a Thanos-style selection system is.

But you'll sound like a three year old if you say to school "it's not fair"...

[GreenTulips]

ACtually DD is being taken on a two week trip all paid for by friends parents ..... the other two aren't invited ..... WIBU to demand they are all best buddies and couldn't possibly be split up for 14 days? That it isn't fair that she gets to go and they should include the other 2 (free of ofcoarse) ?

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Why are trips being run that arent open to everyone?

[EduCated]

I do think it’s pretty rubbish of the school to change selection style after deposits had been paid (unless it was made clear before that oversubscription would result in random selection). If you’d gone into it knowing that this might happen, then it would still be disappointing, but you’d at least have been able to anticipate it before they got their hopes up too much.

Now it has happened, I don’t think there’s anything to be done but suck it up, or pull your other son out and make alternative plans, and maybe politely request that the school plan ahead for these situations in future. You could ask if they’ve considered the possibility of making extra spaces available (I would imagine they already have and that it’s not feasible - it’s usually not as simple as booking an extra coach) and whether they’ll hold a waiting list, as someone will inevitably drop out (though you’re DS may still end up at the bottom of the list).

[EduCated]

GreenTulips That’s a bit different - the holiday was never on offer to the other two. It’s more akin to the friend’s parent offering to take all three then saying there’s not enough space - I imagine you would be a bit miffed in that entirely hypothetical situation!

[AJPTaylor]

it should be a clear policy that it will be names out of a hat.
my dds primary changed to this after i pointed out that my dd never went on anything because i collected her from after school club at 5.30 and all places allocated before that.
i would send one this year and save furiously for the one next year. if its 3x the cost he will get a place.
and ask if other son can have first refusal. in my experience there are a few who drop out cos their mates are not going etc.

[margotsdevil]

If other siblings are both going that kind of proves the point that it was random... my point was that by insisting ALL sets of siblings be allowed to go may disadvantage an only child who didn't get a place because there were so many sibling groups who were given priority - which is what you are suggesting!

[Snowysky20009]

Really over reacting. It's th Luck of the draw. Just send the unlucky dc on the next ski trip.

[MaisyPops]

But you'll sound like a three year old if you say to school "it's not fair"...
But always funny (and exasperating) for staff.
Some parents love to think that all children are equal but some are more equal than others.

E.g. I know it's been upsetting for some not to get a place, but it's been even more upsetting for my child and is there a chance...
E.g. Some children got on as their only one in tjeir friendship group and my DC was the only one out of his group not to go. Surely it would make sense to swap.
E.g. If you want to run a trip then it's only fair for school to have their act together and staff it properly instead of only staffing it for so many (but i wouldn't be complaining if my child made the cut)
E.g. It's not right to offer trips but not have places for everyone (but i wouldn't be complaining if my child made the cut)
E.g. lots and lots of hyperbole about how much worse everything is for their child
E.g. lots and lots of being arsey, confrontational and attempting to bully the school into changing the decision

One I am aware of, the parent started saying parents of disappointed kids would find funds to cover another member of staff if it meant their children could go.

[noblegiraffe]

Why are trips being run that arent open to everyone?

Generally it’s impractical to organise a trip for the whole school and then see who signs up and cancel coaches, staffing etc.

[user1471450935]

The comp are two attend(ed) do this. In year 7 and 8 theres a PGL trip. Every year they take everyone who books. Think £45 for 3 days.
But then they do maths, history and geography trips for year 9 and 10. But limit them to 45 kids. But there over 150 kids doing history and geography. Nearly 500 doing maths. Daft.
Also skiing trips years 8 to 10 and football trips to Baralona for years 7 to 10. Both alls oversubscribed. But tell me this teachers and school supports, we know at least 6 kids who have gone skiing in each year, and at least 10 who have lost in the draw each year, football trip much the same. Ours never wanted to ski and play rugby and cricket so not in for footy trip.
Also why no rugby, hockey, cricket or netball trips. Not every kid likes football or skiing.
Seems to me school trips should either be open to every kid like PGL or dont bother.
Whats skiing or football trips to do with education anyway.

[MaisyPops]

Whats skiing or football trips to do with education anyway.
Wider enrichment.
Not every child is in a position where their family can afford to take 4 people skiing. They might however be able to save and send their child with a school group.

Enrichment plays a huge role in the life of many private schools and state schools try ot level the playing field a litte bit by offering more to their enrichment. It's not loads but it's something beyond the school and immediate community.

[noblegiraffe]

Schools don’t have to offer trips. Teachers aren’t paid to organise them or go on them. You get a football trip because someone is willing to organise a football trip. You don’t get a netball trip because there isn’t.

The more parents there are who are moaning arses about trips, the less likely teachers are to want to organise them. It’s a lot of work.