Blimey : MFL A levels have changed

[Piggywaspushed]

Disclaimer : went to school in Scotland in the late Middle Ages.

I studied French and German as CSYS level (kind of like A2) and got As so considered myself good. But what my DS is doing now is really turning him off. we did three lit texts in French and German (this may have been more than we needed knowing my school!) and some history (German was east Germany and education , I remember; French I think was the resistance) But all our teaching was basically in English, certainly all our discussion of texts and I SWEAR we wrote essays in English!

DS can't even seem to learn grammar in peace now without it being related to some 'ishoo' and even his homework is set in detailed Spanish.

I know this is all very worthy - but it's no wonder kids talk about the gulf between GCSE and A level in MFL!

DS already dropped French after one week. He can't drop Spanish, not least because he got near as dammit full marks at GCSE. You wouldn't know it, though. He is really struggling, hates it and is now being supervised in free periods to force him to work... there is no shame emoji so I went for blushing...

The teaching isn't great either, which does not help. Boys definitely respond negatively to weaker teaching much more than girls ime.

Anyone else share my his suffering?

[Partridgeamongstthepigeons]

Did A level French and German in 91, all essays in the target language. All books studied in the language too..

Boule De Suif
L’étranger
Poss another in French

Das Tagebuch Von Anne Frank
Das Brandopfer
Mutter Courage (can’t remember if it has a K at beginning).

[Allthebestnamesareused]

We have found that where there are joint honours then having the MFL means that there are lower grade requirements.

eg. Economics at a good uni for economics such as LSE requires A*AA for Economics but only AAB for Economics and German which was why I thought I might seek to persuade DS into doing German (my idea not DS's at all) but I am leaving well alone after the A level horror tales I am hearing on here.

[Kokeshi123]

"It would be helpful if bilingual children could have a form of accreditation for their ability."

I agree. I think that if a child speaks French (or whatever) at home, then by age 18 they should, pretty much by definition, be aiming at a higher level than a "regular" non-native speaker by age 18.

Not saying that they should be expected to be at the same level of literacy as an 18yo who has been through the French schooling system either; they should probably be aiming for a level that is in-between the two.

My daughter is bilingual; if we went to live in the UK, I would not encourage her to do GSCEs or A-levels in her "other home language" for a number of reasons, one of which is that I would worry that it would make her look like an unadventurous candidate who wants easy As. I would prepare her to sit other, more challenging qualifications in her language which are not school-based. These could then be listed in her CV.

[Piggywaspushed]

Yes, indeed- I know that. By fluency, I meant fluent speaking.

Because he has tow Spanish speakers as his teachers (one of whom actually isn't a teacher at all) I think most of the focus is on Spoken Spanish. Apparently, though, this is fine, according to feedback.

The more I hear, the more dismayed I am. The acting head of MFL is not who I thought it was. It is now a French woman who teaches DT... The only actual Spanish teacher is very inexperienced and is now, I am guessing, having to resource the teaching of the Spanish FLA as well as organise her own teaching. I don't want to be 'that parent' but I might actually request the programme of study...I need reassurance that there is a coherent route through the new A Level.

[PurplePillowCase]

op there is a huuuge difference between fluency in writing/understanding (which can and should be achieved with a-levels) and conversation.

[Piggywaspushed]

To be fair, I don't really want or aim for DS to be fluent (as I agree that requires immersion, probably abroad). I just want him to enjoy it and feel motivated :(

I think he might just take up a new language at uni.

[Boulshired]

I do not think we have ever been committed in teaching language at school to a fluent level for all, most adults I know who have good language skills have family fluent or lived overseas. The welsh have shown if there is commitment then children at an early age can be taught to be bilingual. I do think in my own children’s cases they were exposed to more MFL at primary but it was so spread out between French, Spanish and German and a few others that they would never get to any level of conventional skills. Even at GCSE DS1 has less German language skills compared to my GCSE French from the 80’s.

[Acopyofacopy]

Another German here, now teaching MFL in England!
Becoming a teacher here has been somewhat eye-opening. In Germany English and French lessons were conducted entirely in TL, I was relatively fluent by the end of Year 9. But: languages are core subjects.
Very different picture here! The quality of language teaching is, ahem, variable. The old GCSEs were a complete joke.

I love the new GCSEs, but many of my colleagues are struggling because they surpass their own ability. They will lead to proficient linguists who will be able to cope with MFL A levels. Current Y10-13 have been dealt a really crap hand, though.

[NotCitrus]

My kids start French with a fluent French speaker in Reception. Thing is, they just seem to learn a few songs and limited vocabulary again and again and the Y4 kid knows little more than the one in Y1 and is bored rigid! They have a lovely accent though. I should give him a French dictionary and textbook and tell him to teach himself.

I had similar - did the first year of learning French four times in 3 schools and second year 3 times in 2 schools. After which I gave up as one year in Y9 of German had already given me more.

When I did GCSE it was a school requirement that you be shipped off to a family for two weeks to practice the language - none of this whole class going and mostly speaking English. Safeguarding hadn't yet been invented, admittedly. Fortnight of mum telling me all her woes and her 'hooligan' son swearing at her, and drinking with girl and friends and attending school for a week, was most educational.

[Piggywaspushed]

They don't even have those blue vocab books any more!

In primary schools, the people teaching French are often the usual class teacher, who may not even have GCSE.

Once a fortnight I can hear a course running next door to my office where a lady is instructing teachers how to teach French. It is very very repetitive : 'asseyez vous' over and over again and over and over again.

[NotCitrus]

I recall my German teacher 20 years ago welcoming us to A-level saying "You'll be expecting a syllabus. I'm not giving it to you; your aim is to become fluent in German. Now we're going to watch the News." She scribbled vocabulary on the board as it came up, and we watched the same show 3 times until we we somewhat less terrified. Any word mentioned in class, we had to write down and would be expected to know forever.
We did 5 books so we could write about four, in English - I think we all avoided Maria Stuart and did Der Besuch der alten Dame, Das Brot der fruhen Jahre, Caucasian chalk circle, and Die Judenbuche. Did have to write essays in German - 500 words a week, and also did translation into German for S-level prep. Teacher left after Christmas of U6 and successor was a useless wimp - 14yos complained about not enough homework - so it was just as well we'd covered everything already. New teacher kept telling us about her divorce and we kept saying can't you at least whinge in German? Which she did, to be fair.

I was just about fluent in standard German by the end, though lacking in colloquialisms.

[HowcouldIpossiblyknow]

That's very interesting fairy - most people say the reason we're so far behind places like Germany is not starting early enough! I am not so sure - as you say it depends on the quality of the teaching.

Interesting question will be how to recruit any mfl teachers at all in future years if so many are deterred from doing the a levels? Action needs to be taken!

[fairyofallthings]

I think that language teaching is suffering because of the way people try to teach it in primary schools. The government insist on the teaching of French but there isn't the money to get French teachers and children don't find it easy and are put off languages. I think it would be better left until high school (unless specialist teachers can be put in primary schools) where people who really know the language can start teaching; my youngest is far better at Spanish after just 1/2 a term of Spanish teaching than he is at French after apparently having been taught it since he was 6.

[HowcouldIpossiblyknow]

That's really interesting piggy, I'd heard they were slightly lower but perhaps that means 'lower than law, or medicine', so not really lower generally.
Anecdotally again (so not much use really and quite possibly wrong!) I've heard the univs may be more likely to 'drop' the offer so if you don't get the grades you may still get in. But do not rely on this view unless someone who knows comes along to confirm it!

[Piggywaspushed]

I have about 500 uni prospectuses in my home at the mo (in the vain attempt to get DS to show a passing interest). I must stress these are not high falutin RG places. The languages offers are no lower than other subjects. The only noticeable lower offers are in the sciences and education!

[HowcouldIpossiblyknow]

fromwest anecdotally i think you may be right - mfl is 'risky' in that i've heard of people getting unexpectedly low grades or lower grades than in their other subjects, so a 'surprise' iyswim. i stress that is only anecdotal!

on the other hand people do say mfl course offers from universities tend to be lower as they are harder to recruit for (and perhaps because univs have long recognised what we are now discovering - the impact of bilingual speakers on the grade boundaries.)

[Piggywaspushed]

I think it sounds like her GCSE will prepare her better.

Great teaching makes all the difference.

[fromwesttoeast]

This thread has got me thinking! DD is year 10 and Spanish is her favourite subject - but it seems like it’s risky as A level. We have no Spanish speaking background.
I did French A level (lit essays in French) and it was my worst grade - but I did enjoy it.

[MadameChauchat]

Like Pointythings I did A-levels in Holland many moons ago. I'd like to add that, for English, not only did we do all final exams in the target language (both oral and written) but also we had to read 16 books in English (including Shakespeare and Dickens by the way) that we had to talk about during the oral exam. These books were not prepared in class, each pupil had to make their own list of books they wanted to read and then study them without any help from the teacher. If you did A-levels French and German too, you had to study 12 more books per language. On top of that were 25 books for Dutch. And we did 7 A-levels, not 3!

[Piggywaspushed]

It's such a sad thing .

[noblegiraffe]

The government thought by making the Ebacc compulsory, the language issue would sort itself but there just aren’t the teachers. They’re now trialling student loan forgiveness for MFL recruits to try to get some more teachers.

[Piggywaspushed]

it is becoming more common. It's terrible isn't it? I do think a lot of this thread does illustrate why there isn't the take up : but also MFL recruitment is a nightmare. This is often not discussed because of government priorities with STEM subjects.

Spanish A level was not guaranteed at DS's school, which is why he actually started elsewhere. Now that they are offering it, we are complaining so the head must just love us! I do feel a bit ungrateful but it's DS's future...

[Lancelottie]

I've just checked, and two of the sixth forms DD was considering don't do any MFL. WTF? Is that common?

[Allthebestnamesareused]

Well - my DS is intending to chose Maths, Geography, Economics and Politics as his A levels. I was going to try to persuade him that he might like to do German as he has a A* prediction and wants to do Economics at degree level 9; well this is his current thinking, who knows where he'll be in 2 years time). I thought perhaps having German would be helpful careerwise but seeing all the comments here and realising the difficulty of getting a top grade (which he'll need to read Economics where he wants to) I am going to leave well alone.

I am also aware that Oxbridge will want 3 other A levels if they are aware that one of the parents is a native speaker of the language being studied. I am not sure whether you have to specifically disclose it or whether it is just those students that have a French/Russian/Italian/Chinese sounding surname that face this.

I do know that a friend's half Chinese daughter with an English surname was not allowed to use her Mandarin grade A level and had her offer based on 3 others to read Mandarin as a degree. She is not Oxbridge and I am not certain she was interviewed either.

[Lancelottie]

GU24, we did Pliny's account of Vesuvius as well! Either we were massively overprepared or our teacher hadn't read the syllabus and just covered every book he had in the back room.