Pupils in independent schools much more likely to get extra time in exams

[Sadik]

Don't know if others have seen this - article here.
What I don't think is at all obvious is whether it's independent schools working the system, or state schools failing to get extra time for those who need it?

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

On a completely different note, someone mentioned that independent schools routinely screen students for dyslexia. My understanding is, helpful as that is, this alone does not qualify students for exam concessions anyway.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I agree - but I didn't say hogging : just that, in my school, they are getting TAs and no one else is. I did not say more able students weren't getting TAs; that is your interpretation. There are less able students not getting TAs, or students who should have EHCPs but don't , for a range of reasons, getting no support. The child with the very lowest reading age in the school , for example, gets no TA support.
If you read I was saying hogging, that was absolutely unintentional. Children with EHCPs deserve absolutely the very best of support. As I said, I posted to illustrate why an average state school has neither the time nor the resources of a private school to invest in ECs. There were a few posts that implied that Sate schools are a bit lazy and private schools are so much more committed.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Well, I know the latter is not true!!

The former, in my school, however, is definitely true (unless the EHCP specifies no need)

The demographic does of course also vary from state school to state school. We are overloaded with requests for exam concessions : the processing of these effectively and efficiently is the problem.

I really genuinely do not believe an average independent school ahs a higher proportion of students theoretically entitled to any form of exam concession than many many state schools.

Think we will have to beg to differ!

[3dancingladies]

Independent schools IME do not manipulate the system as suggested by some PP, they just ensure that those pupils entitled to extra time receive it. The state sector is very different with 30% of exam centres making no access arrangements at all. It is very unlikely that these exams centres have no pupils at all who are entitled to extra time. However, there is a cost implication to extra time and some schools, because of over stretched budgets, try to avoid making access arrangements if at all possible. I am frequently shocked by the pupils with obvious needs who get no extra support within school and no extra time in exams. Parents need to be pushy and aware of the system and time limits. Ideally the "usual way of working" needs to be established from year 9 and the deadline for access arrangements for this summer's GCSEs falls next week, after that it is too late.

[MrsGuyOfGisbo]

This ought to put paid to the myth often propagated on here that indies only have better results because they do not take pupils with SEND - clearly not true.,

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Yes, they take pupils with SEND, who the get very small class sizes and lots of 1:1 (usually the parent pays extra). As the article then implies these independents are then 'better' at accessing and using exam concessions. Those pupils then fare better, generally, than similar SEND students in the state sector.

The SEND students independents attract/ have on roll are still high achievers, though... they still have to pass the entry tests. Obviously , some private schools specifically specialise in some types of SEND. But your 'normal' private school will only take SEN students with high prior attainment.

Independents have better results because they select by ability. If they were held as accountable for VA as a state school, there might be a different story.

[3dancingladies]

Also it depends on the private school. A very academic one is less likely to have a lot of children with learning difficulties as they probably would nto have passed the 11+ exam in the first place (same with state grammars) whereas private schools which take a broader spread might well have a lot. Millfield for example (boarding school not great exam results but takes a comprehensive intake so it's what you would expect) is probably more ilkely than Eton or St paul's to take a child with these kinds of things.

8% of pupils at Eton receive learning support and may go on to have access arrangements in public exams. As 1:10 individuals are estimated to have specific learning difficulties, this percentage is not surprising. Children with a diagnosis of SpLD or other difficulties will get extra time or other access arrangements in many private/public school entrance exams. In addition, children with a high cognitive ability may mask their difficulties sufficiently to pass exams - it is not uncommon for uni students to find out they have dyslexia. However, passing exams does not mean they are acheiving their full potential. It is not the independent schools we should be questioning, but the state school system which fails so many children because of short-term financial savings.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Short term financial savings? Wow. Not sure what you would suggest schools in financial crisis should do? Spend the money anyway?

Eton ahs a mammoth budget and acres of privilege : it is hardly a workable comparison.

Academies are not allowed to go into debt. Saving money is not a short term whim.
Sadly, in many school redundancies are being made, and often support staff are the first to go. Staffing savings are made when a TA leaves, by not replacing him/ her.
These are realities, sadly.

[Peanutbutterrules]

I don't think its surprising that more private schools have a higher number of kids with extra time.

My DD is a perfect example. All through primary our concerns were dismissed as pushy parents (despite me being dyslexic) because DD was above average for reading, but couldn't spell for toffee and her writing was like watching paint dry. When I finally gave up with the school and paid for an Ed Phyc report the results came back as 'significant' issues and recommended extra time for several reasons. Even with report the school gave other kids extra time, but not my DD as they said she didn't need it and even told me 'not to make a big deal about it'. The senco refused a meeting because there was, apparently, no point because her attainment was average or above.

We sent DD private in secondary because we were scared the same would happen at secondary. She's in year 8 and is a different child, happy and doing well at school. They have the time to give her the support she needs, which isn't a huge amount but makes a huge difference both to her confidence and academic performance.

The problem isn't private schools, the problem is underfunding of state schools which results in prioritorising the kids that need the most help, rather than being able to help all that need it.

[3dancingladies]

Short term financial savings? Wow. Not sure what you would suggest schools in financial crisis should do? Spend the money anyway?

beans my gripe is not with individual schools, but with an education system that often completely fails children with SpLD.

Not recognising and supporting pupils with SpLD has long term effects for individuals and economic consequences for us all. There is a correlation between SpLD and poor mental health. In addition, it is believed that 30% of the prison population has dyslexia (so 3 times the incidence of the general population).

www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/uploads/documents/noknl.pdf

More generally, there are many pupils not getting the results that they are capable of achieving because the system does not put in adequate support or make adequate adjustments (include exam access arrangements). Not getting a 4 in the English Language GCSE (20% of which is now marked on spelling, punctuation and grammar) will have long term consequences for many pupils with dyslexia.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Indeed. I don't disagree with any of this (although I am not sure where the 20% stat comes from as an English teacher; I'll have to get my calculator out)

The failings within the system arise from so much - and many people are being failed, not least students from low income backgrounds. This ball juggling, and the rise in MH and the expectation that schools find funding to also tackle these issues...

All of it is a bit too much really...

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Right. Got the 20% now. The papers are out of 80 each and the final mark for section B for each paper is out of 16. This isn't jus a pure SPAG mark though but I can see why they say it is.

A dyslexic pupil is liable to struggle with the whole paper, if I am being bleakly honest. There's a lot of reading and a lot of different tasks and activities. I am not sure how an exam concession really addresses this. My girl with extra time in my class just got utterly confused in the mocks - partly because the TA in charge decided to very pedantically apply the extra time only to the final part of the paper, rather than just tagging it on to the whole exam time. Sigh. But she found the demands of the exam quite overwhelming.

Personally, I try not to fail anyone.

[3dancingladies]

m not sure where the 20% stat comes from as an English teacher; I'll have to get my calculator out

beans - see page 11

www.ocr.org.uk/Images/168588-gcse-9-1-english-summary-brochure.pdf

[3dancingladies]

Sorry cross posted

[3dancingladies]

The exam concessions make a huge difference to some pupils, for example, a computer reader is permissible for the reading section of the English Language paper (a human reader is not) and allows students with a good vocabulary, but slow reading rate to access the text; however, you have to have established using a computer reader as a "usual way of working".

Extra time can also make the difference between a pass and a fail. Being dyslexic can go hand in hand with high cognitive ability and access arrangements allow these pupils to achieve a grade that reflects their ability.

[Needtofiddle]

I can't be bothered to rtft but I can tell you that in some schools you have to fucking fight for extra time my ds has complex SN most of which would need extra time. But his primary were shit beyond belief and only gave it at the end ofyr6 and secondary are proving lax too.

It. Is. Relentless.
The fight. The letters I send. I laws I quote.
All those people who talk about schools faking reports etc. My guess is they push it for the high functioning just to ensure they get their top grades. I have never found a school to be motivated on their own for the actual kids with SN. It is so sad.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I have never heard of this computer reader thing. For it to be established as a usual way of working I guess the school would have to have one, whatever it is... and then for it to be available a lot of the time in lessons.

I am interested in what you mean by pass and fail!!

[Needtofiddle]

Also the tests are very narrow. Ds is hyper mobile and passed his dash handwriting test. But they test over a short time, a small amount of writing. He can manage that. He cN concentrate for that. But not for the 45 mins -3 hr exams. So the test result isn't relevant or accurate but gets taken as a representation of his ability. It takes a little longer for his hands to cramp and arm to tire. As is the case when you have to hold your pen really really hard to write.

And what about Tourette's? Your head is shaking repeatedly so you can't really read? Well your teachers say you can read so you don't get a reader.
The assessments are so flawed. It is so frustrating.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

fiddle that certainly isn't a fair representation of my school. In fact, it more likely the high functioning will miss out.

But all schools are measured by Ofsted etc on SEN outcomes so we ignore them at our peril.
I do know you have to be extraordinarily pushy sometimes ... I honestly believe it is overstretched staff and underfunding rather than the attitudes you state.

[fuckingwall]

ILikeBeansWithKetchup - a computer reader is just a text to speech function. You just need a laptop and a pair of headphones.

You do realise that your pupil who is struggling to read the paper may be entitled to extra time and a reader? (and rest breaks)

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I am not sure what pupil you are referring to?

I mentioned a pupil who struggled when given extra time as a way of saying ECs are not a magic wand.

I said that many dyslexic students would struggle with the whole paper as it is so convoluted. Extra time or no extra time.

I actually believed readers were no allowed for English language : I will find out more about this computer thing.

[3dancingladies]

beans many pupils with dyslexia are perfectly capable of accessing complex text with a reader (human or computer). You might find it interesting to read this which explains access arrangements. The example of p.14 (3.6) clearly explains the use of readers in English Language

www.jcq.org.uk/exams-office/access-arrangements-and-special-consideration/regulations-and-guidance/access-arrangements-and-reasonable-adjustments-2016-2017

A computer reader can be a reading pen

www.scanningpens.co.uk/?fmprompt=false

Alternatively the students can use laptop with specialist software such as claroread or Read Write Text Gold. Both just read text aloud and allows the listener to focus on the content rather than the process of decoding the text. Pupils cannot use a human reader in the reading section of the English Language paper because a human reader will use intonation and therefore may give clues to the meaning of the text, the computer reader reads in a flat, robotic voice.

Schools don't want to publicise this information because of the cost,

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Oh yes, we do have those reading pens!

Thanks for the info.
Everything always comes down to cost, unfortunately.