Mixed ability maths Y7

[ihearttc]

Ive posted about this before but we are now 6 weeks into the school year and nothing has changed. DS1 loves maths (or at least he did until he started High School) and is completely bored and disengaged with the work they are doing. He got good SATs results (111 in maths) but is not any kind of mathematical genius or anything but genuinely enjoys the subject. He used to have extra maths lessons for extension work in Y5/6 before school for fun! His High School don't set for maths until the start of Y9 so we have 2 whole years of this. Yes I knew they were mixed ability when we applied for the school but we live quite rurally so it is literally the only High School around here...next nearest is in a different county and he wouldn't have got in (plus I can't get him there everyday).

They have learnt to use a number line apparently (which my 5 year old is currently doing!) and have done some work on multiplication x 10. They have 3 levelled sheets to chose from and he picks the hardest one (he said the hardest question on there was 23X10). He could do stuff like that in Y2 so completes it in 5 minutes and basically sits there the rest of the lesson.

We had a form tutor parents evening 2 weeks ago and I mentioned it then and his tutor said he would speak to the maths teacher but nothing has changed. Im completely at a loss of what to do? Whatever I say comes out like I think he is some maths prodigy and needs calculus or something but I just genuinely want him to be challenged and to enjoy maths again.

[redskytonight]

They may still not be set. As I said upthread, DS's school doesn't set at all. However he's been in some groups of students that definitely work better than others! As long as the school recognises that a particular grouping is not working and mixes them up, that's the main thing!

[user1474361571]

No wonder we are doing so bad in international comparisons.

How many world leading university maths departments does Singapore have? And how many do we have? We are NOT doing badly.

[jeanne16]

Jessica. What noblegiraffe has described is pretty good going for even selective private schools. I know as I teach maths in one of them.

The problem with mixed ability classes in y7 is there can be a massive range in abilities, from pupils who don't really understand the concept of place value to others who could be doing the y9 syllabus. It makes teaching very difficult. Having said that, an Ofsted Inspection would come down heavily on a teacher with pupils who have nothing to do. The golden rule is all pupils must be occupied and progressing at all times.

[guardian123]

I know a maths teacher from a comprehensive school. she told me the lower sets students can be a few years behind in maths skill than their top sets peers. If compared to Far East Asian country, the English curriculum is considered as easy. As a result, even the top sets students here are not really that top either. Unfortunately this problem can not be resolved easily. Many of these "bad" students do not have strong foundation from primary school, they don't know basic times tables and have no concept in fraction, for example, 18 divided by 2 can be extremely challenging for certain yr8/yr9 students.

[Yawnyawnallday]

Good news

[ihearttc]

Just thought Id update everyone. I decided to not email school and see what happens after half term.

DS1 came home from school tonight with a letter stating that the work and levels had been assessed and that all the maths groupings would be changed. He now has the same teacher but a completely different group of children so Im assuming that they are now set despite them telling us over and over again that they wouldn't be.

He is so happy (how anyone can be that pleased about Maths I don't know!).

[MooPointCowsOpinion]

Oh wow that's not on.

I've taught mixed ability year 7 before, it takes planning to group and distribute different levels of work, and my top groups would be doing standard form while middles are doing index laws and LAs are doing square numbers (for example).

Everyone doing simple 3 by 2 multiplication? Wtf!

Setting isn't the holy grail or anything, good teaching is all that's needed. Complain, get other parents to complain, demand a meeting and see his book, ask for the curriculum for the year.

[steppemum]

Do you have any of his school books from last year?

Can you photocopy some of the work in there?

Then go online and download the maths curriculum for year 7. I am 99% certain that it does not contain 23x 10 as the top level. That is work that my 8 year old can easily do.

Take you paper work in to see maths teacher. Not being pushy, but they did this last year, this is year 7 curriculum, why aren' they teaching it.

Having seen all the SATS prep papers dd did in year 6, I am astounded they are getting away with it.

[LynetteScavo]

I think you need to email the maths teacher.

My DCs school don't set..I have three DC, one able at mats, one quite average and one who struggles a bit.

All three have been catered for academically in maths in Y7. In fact my able DC was much better catered for than in Y6 where the top 12 in the year were taught separately. He was constantly challenged with extra questions, so it can be done.

[BackforGood]

Same here Sadik

[Sadik]

notanetter - in my case, it was more about responding to endless moaning, whinging and complaining about being bored witless. This was back in yr 7. After a term or so of saying, more or less, 'I'm sure it'll get better soon, they'll just be seeing what everyone can do' I asked to see her book, to establish whether she had any justification, especially as she wasn't - and indeed isn't - generally one to complain about lack of work (!)

[Yawnyawnallday]

Don't worry yourself, if my dd's modern language teaching is poor, I'll stick my nose into that. Or any other subject if I think she's not being challenged enough.
Politely and respectfully, of course.
J' mapelle, anyone. As seen at one open evening I went to recently.

[notanetter]

I think it's more the case that parents tend to stick their noses into their children's maths teaching and learning more than into any other subject!

[Sadik]

"if they're good then maybe they're actually just working to a tried and tested plan"

Yes and no - dd is in a school with excellent maths results, maths setted from day 1. She was bored utterly rigid in yr 7, a little better in yr 8 - now in yr 10 and homework still takes 5 minutes if not already done in class.

(We did get a little shirty with the teacher at parents' eve when she complained about dd looking out of the window and fiddling during lessons - and got a reply about the importance of concentrating anyway as at some point she'll stop finding it easy - and pointing out that she did drop 1 mark (!) in the end of year exam due to an arithmetic error, clearly down to her lack of attention .)

So setting not the be all and end all - though OP your situation does sound particularly dire :( I'm not sure why this is such a common issue in maths - maybe harder to set work to different levels on the same topic than in science, for example?

[ihearttc]

Wow so many replies...thank you so much everyone.

I can't reply to everyone but they definitely don't set at all for Maths and English until the beginning of Y9. English isn't so much of a problem as although he is good at English (he got 108 SPAG and 109 in Reading) the work he is doing in class is sufficient enough to keep him interested and engaged.

I have absolutely no idea what work he has done in his Maths book as they haven't come home at all...Ive never even seen one. He has books for every other lesson (so I know its not him forgetting it!) and the homework they had to do was a maths based project regarding researching numbers which he did as a power point so nothing has gone in his book from home.

We knew the school was mixed ability when we applied but there was literally no other choice in schools.

Ive spoken to his Y6 teacher today and he has said that Im the third person this week so say exactly the same thing so obviously other children from their old school are feeling the same.

I can't call as I work in a school as well (even across lunchtime) and by the time I get home there is no one at the High School so I think Im going to try sending an email...just need to think how to word it.

[Yawnyawnallday]

Been to open evening where maths teacher was saying that children are much more able to cope with rigours of Year 7 maths because demands at Year 5 and 6 much higher. Meanwhile my Y5 dd was merrily doing an algebra challenge he'd set for visiting Y5s and Y6s.
Doesn't sound like your ds' maths teacher is giving rigorous work. Be that parent (no you are not That Parent) and get an explanation. And a plan from them.

[Traalaa]

OP, I haven't read the whole thread, but in case nobody's mentioned this, have you looked at the GCSE results for the school in maths? If they're lousy, well fair enough, but if they're good then maybe they're actually just working to a tried and tested plan.

My son's comp streams in maths from day 1 of year 7 and my DS spent most of his first term moaning about how easy it all was and he was top set. The reason was simply that they were making sure everyone had nailed the basics. It didn't take v.long before they'd worked the kids all out and were giving more varied tasks to stretch the different abilities.

[redskytonight]

DS's school also teaches maths in mixed ability groups (well, they have higher or foundation groups from Y9). It has not meant that he has not been stretched - far from it! So the issue is not the mixed ability teaching, but the way it is being delivered.

However, his school did use the first half term of Y7 to consolidate KS2 work - and he found it dreadfully dull. It got better after half term! So would be good to know if similar is the case in your school before you start blazing too many guns.

[EmpressoftheMundane]

ihearttc, without getting into a philosophical/political discussion, and just thinking of how to get results for your DS, I think polite persistence is the key here. You will best know how to engage with your particular school, but I think you should be making enquiries, offering feedback etc. Some schools don't set until later in yr7 or even till yr8. I think well mannered badgering is the order of the day! Your DS will top of mind when they are making up sets, and therefore more likely be assured of a place in the very top set.

All that said, I have friends at our local comp. Their very bright children in tippy-top sets still find it a bit slow. In that case, I think you have to look for some outside enrichment.

[HPFA]

For interest - a link to the curriculum at the Royal Latin School ( a grammar) in Bucks. Click on KS3.

www.royallatin.org/rlscurriculum

It says majority of students will be taking Assessment paper Levels 5-7 at end of Year 7 for Maths. Top 2 sets in DD's comp did this - I suspect a few in Set 1 might have done 6-8 but she's scraping at the bottom of Set 2 so I wouldn't know this. (Whole other story - I tend to think she's in too high a set). So I don't think there's a huge difference between a non-super selective and a good comp.

I think OP's right though - his work does sound too easy. Although I had the same complaint from DD and when I looked at her Maths book she was getting plenty of it wrong! I think in her case she assumed she could do certain things but had actually forgotten how to do them properly!

[JustRichmal]

Apologies Simpson.
My last post should have been to Jessia0.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Teaching mixed ability well is the issue.

I think it may be possible, but I don't know that it's something many secondary maths teachers will have a great deal of experience with. It's proving difficult for primary teachers to get their heads around it.

[JustRichmal]

Simpson, if you have read any of my previous posts, you will know I am a parent who has had some long, hard struggles with schools. You do not get very far in life by "demanding" anything. The best way is to start with an email saying "I would like to arrange a meeting with... because..."
Secondly, you need to see things also from their point of view. Teaching such a wide ability range is impossible.
Lastly you need to be clear what you want the result of such a meeting to be and no matter how much else is said, keep returning to it as a sensible solution. You do not need to be confrontational, they soon get the idea that the only way to get you out of the room is to agree. If they do suggest something which sounds reasonable, you can always agree to try it for a few weeks and arrange another meeting there and then for another months time in order to review it.

[notanetter]

JustRichmal, I am guessing your not a parent. Have you ever turned up at a school demanding to see the head of maths, the maths teacher and the head teacher. I would put £100 on it never happening

Can I have that £100? I requested (no 'demanding' necessary) just such a meeting with regard to my children at the end of the term before they started Y7 at the school they now attend. I knew that they would be joining a school with no sets, and wanted to reassure myself that this would work well for them, given that they are both reasonably capable across the curriculum, and exceptionally so in maths. I left that meeting feeling satisfied; and indeed, our kids have really enjoyed their maths learning this term so far, which has involved a combination of revision/consolidation, problem solving (they were creating elevation maps this week), and independent learning (through textbooks/websites, with 1-1 tuition as required); last night they were practising trigonometry.

We are lucky, in that we have ending up with a school that understands how to teach mixed ability well. They love the fact that they are in the room with a range of fellow pupils, but each able to progress at his/her own pace.

I'm not posting simply to gush about our situation - but rather, to challenge the assumed wisdom that mixed ability teaching doesn't/can't work. Because as previous posters have said, OP, I think your issue is about quality of teaching, not a lack of sets. And I do think it's worth arranging a meeting to discuss that.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

No problem. I'm a huge fan of the Singapore maths curriculum and the principles behind it. But even I would agree that it isn't going to solve all of our issues and there are some aspects of their education culture that we don't need to go alongside it.