Maths help

[mathsmum314]

New to MN...

Son in year 9, very academic, loves maths. Last year he became bored in class, wasn't progressing. Teacher explained he was working at highest level but would give more extension work.

New GCSE, harder material, new grades 8+9, not allowed to do it early, additional maths unlikely etc It sat uneasy with me but didn't see any other options, trusted the teachers/school, and hoped the harder GCSE would be enough of a challenge.

Choices made and started GCSE material. My son wants to be either a mathematician or physicist, he loves both. On way to school today he looked at his timetable groaned and said "oh no I hate maths class". I can't let him spend another 2 years hating maths class and destroying his love of the subject.

For example, he spent all last week doing indices, and all this week doing standard form. He usually finishes the work within 5 minutes and gets extensions doing ... more indices and standard form. He might as well have spent two weeks practising his 2 times tables. What he really needs is to move into the sixth forms AS maths class but school says that's not feasible.

Any suggestions on what I can do, what I can realistically press the school to do, because its heart-breaking to see something my son loves being destroyed.

[JustRichmal]

Could you ask the teacher if your ds could do further maths. There are a lot of different further maths at just beyond GCSE level, but I would recommend the OCR FSMQ 6993. It has its own study guide so your ds could follow it quietly in class. It is one of the more difficult further maths courses and a good grounding for A level. If he started it at home and enjoyed it, you could then take it into school to ask if he could do that once he finished his class work. Whether or not he actually does the exam could then be left open to see how it goes by year 11.
If he is getting A or A under exam conditions at home, he would most likely get A if he put some work into exam technique. However, if they do allow him to move on to more interesting content in class, there is no need to sit the exam early.

[PiqueABoo]

Maths whizzy Y8 DD still likes the subject, but I've concluded that's because the classroom introvert is very socially comfortable in those lessons sitting near some quirky friends who are allowed to quietly talk amongst themselves when they've finished all the worksheets and the emergency just-in-time extra worksheets. She "hates" English though because her correct answer probably won't be the alternative correct answer the teacher wanted for the next step in their routine and they're sometimes told to do terribly embarrassing things e.g. to make dramatic hand gestures when reading out a passage.

The last maths lesson was ~60 "easy" Pythagoras's theorem questions, three years after she first learnt more than enough of that at middling primary (there is no curriculum maths in her home-life). I had pry the maths topic out of her as she gleefully told a story about whizzy-boy teasing her for being too slow and how she impishly got her revenge by grassing on them to teacher for not writing down all their "'workings" and "anyway they got one wrong" and "couldn't work out why because they hadn't written it down!".

That is representative of all her tales of maths lessons, where it always about the erm.. lolz, and the actual maths is always described as "pipsqueak" or similar. I suppose it could be worse.

[midnightlurker]

Many years ago, I was as bored as your DS - in one of those schools with competitive entry, highly qualified teachers etc. I am afraid that my solution was to read a book under the table during the lesson, with a quick break to do the actual work at the right time. I have a pretty short attention span and found the pace of most lessons too slow. Friends drew, chatted quietly, that sort of thing. We sat at the back and were careful not to get caught. I am not recommending this for your son, but he needs to find a way to make it bearable. Plenty of children find themselves in his position, most just switch off a bit and do something else.

[MumTryingHerBest]

mathsmum314 He does try past papers and does get A/A I think this would be my biggest concern. I don't think any of my local schools would let your DC study A level maths with an A at GCSE (11 plus area). The minimum requirement for maths A Level is A (not sure what it will be with the 1-9 levels).

Have you asked the school what would happen if your DC sat his GCSE maths outside of school (I know a boy local to me did this last year www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/13625389.Ten_year_old_Bushey_boy_gets_A__in_maths_GCSE/). Would they still expect him to work through the GCSE sylabus or would they give him other work and allow him to bring in his own?

[mathsmum314]

AtiaoftheJulii, Thanks, I think the school is trying and wanted to cater for him, its just that the extension work has ended up not solving the issue. I didn't want to come across as a tiger mom and tell them what to do, I need to now.

MumTryingHerBest School hasn't predicted a level 9 because they haven't made any predictions yet. It was mentioned as what he should be easily capable of getting in the context of the uncertainty of the new format. I took your question to mean above GCSE ability, not has covered all the GCSE curriculum, which he is still going through.
That's why I started this thread because I thought getting level 9 was more important than being challenged in class. I have now changed my mind and realised if he is hamstrung like this for another two and a half years the damage done will be greater than the chance he doesn't get a level 9.
example: 10 minutes of teacher teaching, 5 minutes doing work and proving teachers topic is nailed down, curriculum covered pull out own work for next half a hour. That would be a good solution.

JustRichmal Thanks will check out the G&T forum. He does try past papers and does get A/A*. There are a few areas he hasn't yet covered but would only take a few weeks to master. He has been holding back because he knows how boring lessons are when he has already learnt everything. Deliberately dumbing himself down is what is making me worry.

Toffeelatteplease Your wrong, if a talent isn't developed, nurtured and extended during the time when this is what is supposed to happen, then it is a waste of time, a stagnation and possible destruction of that ability.
Your conflating two things I said, occasionally he is pestered the whole lesson for help, stopping him from eg finishing the program he is coding. And often he knows the maths work before the teacher explains it, completes the work set very fast and then has several lessons repeating extensions of the same work. Two weeks later he has learnt nothing.
I called you a troll because you seem to be repeatedly making comments that are irrelevant to what the issue is, you don't seem to understand the point I am making, so your contributions are at best irrelevant. For example I have not blamed the school or the teacher.

AtiaoftheJulii Thank you

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

There are people on this thread who I know have a lot of real experience with this and I think that those of us who have children well supported by school can all say that we now have happier children. That counts for a huge amount.

[Toffeelatteplease]

Other parents seem to be posting opinion rather than experience.

Don't generally post credentials. It is extremely arrogant to assume because someone has a different opinion they have no experience.

I simply don't agree.

[AtiaoftheJulii]

mathsmum you may be new to mumsnet, but if you want to search our past posts, you will see that those of us parents who are being supportive do actually have experience of kids who are Good At Maths and how our schools have dealt with this - I hope this is reassuring! Other parents seem to be posting opinion rather than experience.

[AtiaoftheJulii]

I'd be highly fucked off if my son were being used as some sort of TA anything more than extremely occasionally. The OP's son is 13/14 - tbh, you don't learn the sort of maturity needed to be a good teacher by having it forced upon you. (Aside: my 13 year old is currently in a play and trying to learn singing skills from a 12 year old, who's a lovely singer, but an absolutely terrible teacher!)

And being bored doesn't just mean being bored for a while, it can turn you right off that subject. Towards the end of y7 my son was coming home saying he didn't like maths, because he was bored in school. Didn't stop him doing maths at home, lol. From the start of y8 the school put a bit extra in place, gave him a bit more scope to do his own thing, and he's been fine ever since. If he'd carried on being bored in school, I could imagine his maths talents being - perhaps not wasted, but not reaching their full potential. The OP's son sounds incredibly self-motivated, so it might not be a problem for him, but a few hours of boredom a week - over which you have no control can be very demoralising.

It may not be fashionable to say what are you doing about your own learning - his own learning is exactly what the OP's son would like to be doing!

[Toffeelatteplease]

No one can make you waste a talent unless you let them. Being bored doesn't suddenly make you rubbish at something. It just means for a limited space of time you are bored. That's it.

Again I struggle with the priorities/self interest of a child who apparently bored the whole of a lesson, but can't finish their own work if someone asks them for help. As a parent I would be more worried about this way more than I would the boredom. not saying mentoring doesn't have issues but a child who said this to me seems to be the one who would most benefit from the mentoring interaction. Learning isn't always academic.

It may not be fashionable to say what are you doing about your own learning. It is certainly easier to blame the school/teacher. Much the same way as it easier to call someone who disagrees with you a troll that it is to consider what they are saying, even if ultimately you decide you disagree with it.

[JustRichmal]

mathsmum314, this is a recurring problem which crops up quite often on Mumsnet. If yu go on the G&T you will find those with dcs who are far ahead in their maths are catered for well by some schools and poorly by others. It does vary and can vary also from year to year, depending on the teacher.
If he is in effect teaching himself at home, one problem could be ensuring he has got a wide ability which covers all the curriculum. Also doing the exam requires slightly different skills than just knowing the maths. Would he be happy to try a GCSE paper at home so you can see if he would get A*?
At least the school is acknowledging he is at a higher level. All through lower school I had endless meetings in which schools argued there was no need to differentiate for dd because she was not as advanced as I was claiming. My solution was to let her do GCSE before she went to secondary. With this, getting her to do the maths the rest of the class is doing would be silly, so they now let her do her own work in class and she learns at home.
So you could have him sit GCSE .early, but for reasons outlined in other posts, do consider this option carefully. You know your child best and what may be the best way forward for one child in one situation might not be the right for another in a slightly different situation. If there had been another solution to stopping dd finding maths lessons upsettingly tedious we would have taken it..

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

mumtryingherbest, I'm not sure an inquisition is necessary! mathsmum asked for help on ensuring that her ds doesn't waste his maths lessons when he clearly has a strong talent for the subject. A gifted mathematician doesn't need to be taught much of the gcse syllabus, because a lot of it can be logically inferred, so they can work it out as they go along. Some conventions need to be taught and there are a few standalone topics, but much of it is just logical progression.

No top employers would ever want more than 5 a levels. they would be looking at his degree - hopefully in a subject he is passionate about. For example to get onto a maths degree at cambridge, they don't want you to have done as many different subjects as possible, they want you to have demonstrated real, deep interest in maths, beyond the syllabus. (plus superb scores at STEP)

The material is there for schools to provide to gifted mathematicians. It isn't difficult to provide, it isn't expensive and for a child who is very self motivated it doesn't require much administering. But it does require the school to know it is there and for them to take some level of pro-activeness.

[ChopsticksandChilliCrab]

I use the NRICH website a lot as there are lots of thought provoking challenges there. I expect DS's teacher knows about this one though.

If DS does want to look ahead at the easier A level topics at home (which our top GCSE sets cover through doing the Cambridge Additional Maths Course), this is a useful website. The C1 and C2 courses are what he should start with.

[MumTryingHerBest]

mathsmum314 School has said he would get 9 in maths I think it is very foolish of the school to say this given They don't know this. Have you thought what might happen if you allow your DC to rush into taking the exam and they don't get a level 9 or a level 8 even?

mathsmum314 he has only just started formal lessons (so educated guess) again I'm surprised the school is telling you your DC is at GCSE standard in this subject if he has only just started studying it. Has he really covered the entire syllabus already?

mathsmum314 probably only maths and science (all three) well I'm impressed with your DCs school if they have taught him the whole GCSE syllabus in these four subjects already. I'm assuming your DCs school has them select their GCSE options in year 8 rather than year 9 for this to happen?

Whilst he may have identified the 5 subjects he will carry forward to A level, it might be an idea for him to extend his academic portfolio. Top Employers may want more than just 5 A levels on a CV and certainly outstanding grades for 5 GCSEs and average grades for 4 or more GCSEs will not make him stand out against the children who will have 5 A Levels and 9 or more GCSE A*.

[AtiaoftheJulii]

This sounds so frustrating. If your son's completing (correctly! ) the classwork with time left over, I can't see any justification for not letting him get his own book out and work for a while on his own problems. Sounds like the maths teacher is just being obstinate for some reason. It's not like you're asking much of the school, just the chance for your son to write on paper, out in the open, rather than secretly on his arms!

Have you discussed this with the head of maths? (Sorry if I missed it - can see you've talked to the HT and his current maths teacher.)

When my son was in y9, he spent 3/5 of his maths lessons out of class having mentoring sessions with a sixth former - they did UKMT problems, random A level topics, or any other interesting things either of them had come across. He kept up with his classwork and his homework. Apart from the initial set up, this was no effort for the school.

I'm sure Kitten has given you loads of good advice Good luck!

[mathsmum314]

MumTryingHerBest - probably only maths and science (all three), maybe also computer science as he has only just started formal lessons (so educated guess).

School has said he would get 9 in maths, but its new so there is an element of chance so far. They don't know this, its an extrapolation from obvious ability.

School said he should be working at a level they don't normally provide. Why? I guess money!

[mathsmum314]

Thanks OhYouBadBadKitten

[mathsmum314]

lljkk, you have a glimpse, try imagining what its like to be in that situation from 3 years old. when the subject is what they want to spend their lives doing, they do it after school, and every moment they have a chance. Geography doesn't even scratch the surface.

[MumTryingHerBest]

mathsmum314 out of interest how many subjects is your son working beyond GCSE level and which subjects are they?

Have the school confirmed he will get a level 9 in GCSE maths? If so how do they know this?

Why did the school assess him as working at AS level if they were not prepared to teach him at that level?

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

mathsmum I sent you a pm, you can find it in 'my mumsnet'.

[lljkk]

DD hated geography, the most stupid boring subject on the planet. Still, she didn't become alienated, completed homework with diligence, but no way she would take GCSE geography. She wasn't miserable because some of her best mates were in same class & they larked about together. She had great laughs in geography.

Due to lack of compelling alternative DD ended up doing geography GCSE (compressed into single yr). She busted her arse all of yr9 to get an A* because she's very ambitious & will accept nothing less. She can drone on about long shore drift & the social advantages of tourism in low income countries for an hour. Even agrees now that geography IS an important subject that she can enjoy.

You know what they say about only boring people get bored...

[Toffeelatteplease]

I'd be more concerned about a child who has time to be bored but hasnt got time to get his own work done because he had to help someone

[Toffeelatteplease]

I can tell you have never been a teacher.

Genius.

I have taught maths and I have spent a short time homeschooling (very sucessfully) my own son.

I had said “Your very good at stuffing envelopes so I want you to work sub optimally and have both hands tied behind your back while you do it.

That's the whole point. Noone ties your sons hands that either. It's up to him how he achieves. Especially if he is gifted in maths, he has the skills, it's up to him how he uses them.

Not everything in life is fun and interesting. Sometimes you just have to get on with it.

he gets nothing from it that I can see. learning in life isn't always academic

pupils over to my son for help and he doesn't get to do his own work.
" give me 5 mins and ill give you a hand" social graces, time management and how to manage the needs of yourself and others. And you say he learns nothing from helping others....

[mathsmum314]

Toffeelatteplease – Seriously, your comparing learning maths to stuffing envelopes?!?!?!?! I would imagine you weren’t doing it for fun and had the delayed gratification of a pay packet at the end. I also imagine you weren't trying to fill yourself with a love of doing it, or imagining your future career being stuffing envelopes? Maybe you even had music playing in the background. But would you have done it if I had said “Your very good at stuffing envelopes so I want you to work sub optimally and have both hands tied behind your back while you do it. I can tell you have never been a teacher.