Should I move my DC to different school at 13+

[Dancingdreamer]

DS in Y6 at prep which feeds to senior school next year. He has passed exam for seniors. Has good friends at school but took him long time to settle. However he seems less happy with general school. He has asked to move a couple of times (linked to way school have handled certain issues). The first time we spoke to school and they assured us he would be fine. He was for a time but there have been constant irritations and disappointment for him and if I am honest he has never seemed really at ease in the school.

He seems one of the lost middle. Not outstanding at anything and never chosen for anything - sports trips, house positions, workshops etc. I think he finds this very hard and demotivating. From all accounts nothing changes in seniors.

We have pushed on as he likes his friends and we aren't sure that he would find things much different in another school. Plus only alternative would be boarding which my DH was dead against. However I heard DS talking to his friend today. The friend was saying how excited he was to be moving to seniors. But my DS's response was that he didn't like the school and wanted to leave. This upset me and I am wondering if I should rethink plans now.

What would you do? We have no 11+ options so earliest I think he could now change is 13+ entry boarding but not sure if too late to register him for boarding schools.

[StDogolphin]

Good luck OP, keep plodding on. I have heard that Lord Wandsworth is sporty so might be worth a look?

[happygardening]

Lots don't pre test, only the most selective do, don't forget most boarding schools are struggling to fill their vacancies. Even the more selective ones with pretty respectable results like Kings Canterbury don't pre test. I know of a wide range of children with many different talents and abilities who went there all bar one loved it.

[sendsummer]

Dancingdreamer I thought that a number of schools don't pretest until year 7 or not at all like Rugby or Shrewsbury School or St Edwards or Malvern College.
I agree with happygardening , if you can persuade your DH try those two preps as they will offer good senior school advice as well as being excellent schools.

[happygardening]

I would move him to a reasonable size boarding prep, a knowledgeable head can then advise you as to what senior schools to consider and prepare him for their entrance exam be it CE or the schools own. As I said up thread Windlesham has a broad intake and excellent caring reputation as does Dragon, The latter is a big prep but again it has an excellent caring reputation and a broad intake sending children to a wide variety of schools which is what I personally think you need. A work colleagues DS went there who sounds very similar to your DS and he loved it but I have heard that spaces may not be available.

[Dancingdreamer]

I have missed the boat on state options as didn't apply for state place. That effectively means his only option will be one of the schools which are undersubscribed for a reason.

I have contacted a few schools now but largely he has missed the 11+ entry and the pre-tests for 13+ . One said he could try at 12+ but not a normal point of entry so more difficult to get in. Another would consider at 13+ but have already allocated places after pre-tests and it wasn't clear to me whether he would now be competing for the odd place if someone drops out or not.

Any ideas for schools I could try?

[happygardening]

Mishaps obviously paying gives you more choice. Assuming you can afford it you can look at any independent school in the UK, anywhere is a possibility assuming your DC is the right sex. Only a handful of boarding schools are oversubscribed and are that selective the same est will happily take a capable child, therefore paying gives you choice.
"I did not find that we got more in a fee paying school"
Mishap I suggest this more about your particular fee paying school than every fee paying school. The constrast between what my DS gets at his school and what is offered in the state sector however good it can be is almost incomprehensible you could quite easily be in a different plannet. But then this is hardly surprising with fees of 36K PA with extras on top, then it's inevitable that he will get so much more more. I don't doubt a few pupils (hopefully this is very rare in 2016) are abused in the independent sector but after 11+ years of full boarding and we've had some ups and downs especially at prep that I could happily moan about, my DS has never been abused (not using my definition of abuse any way if he had I would have contacted the police/SS). At senior school I have been frankly stunned by how amazing, caring and committed the staff are not just to teaching the boys but to them as people. In contrast DS1 went to an "outstanding high achieving" academy I honestly didn't think the staff could give a toss about him.

[Gruach]

I would move him because he is unhappy and wants to move.

This^

OP Admittedly not every child can be completed thrilled and excited in anticipation of the move to senior school (and where it's fear of change a parent does have to step in) but they ought, at the very least to feel sanguine and to be vaguely looking forward.

[StDogolphin]

I would move him because he is unhappy and wants to move. If you start looking now maybe you will find a good fit for September? If you can draw up a short list he could chose and feel really involved. A bit of agency is good for the confidence. I would ring round a few possibilities and sound them out.

[Mishaps]

I do not agree that paying gives you more choice. The conclusion we came to is that wherever you send your children (and ours all went to an assortment) there will be good and bad things, things that you approve of and things that you do not. We concluded that you might as well be in that situation for free! No school is perfect and I did not find that we got more say in a fee-paying school. In fact one DD was abused by a teacher at such a school and no-one would listen to us.

[Mishaps]

One of the problems with private exam entry schools is that pupils who do not shine at anything in particular learn that they are worth nothing. My DD went to a private secondary school where she boarded weekly - it is the worst decision we ever made. A lot of the pupils were in the National Youth Choir, National Youth Orchestra etc. and my DD, a bright lass, felt that she was an also-ran. At 6th form we moved her to the local Sixth Form College where she thrived, made lots of friend, got excellent exam results etc. But that sense of being a failure has never left her. Beware!

[sendsummer]

Dancingdreamer I do not think it is typical of good boys' schools but it is true that some individuals feel the unfairness or shrink into themselves more than others in that sort of system.

Happygardening I think you are missing the point slightly. Unrealistic expectations of one to one attention all the time are not equivalent to recognition of the really good school systems that have teachers that take the trouble and have more time to get to know a DC and help them to take up opportunities and build self confidence. Once that is done a DC will then be more independent.
At my DS's senior school the housemaster quite rightly gives most attention to the youngest boarders. Once DCs are launched on their own path they know how to take from and give to a school community. There are obviously rough times for some alongst the way which may again require a bit more one to one.

Anecdotally my DS having been in a similar prep (also with attached senior school) to that of Dancingdreamer's DS was transformed by boarding from year 6 in an excellent prep which had a number of teachers who really wanted to help him grow in the directions he was capable of and also knew exactly what type of senior school would best suit him. He has not looked back since. He really would have been different had he stayed in the original school and he and we might not have known that he was being limited or could be happier.

[PonderingProsecco]

Is state school really not an option?
Maybe he would shine at a state comprehensive?
Why is state not an option?
Apologies if missing something....

[trinity0097]

Is the senior section the same staff and set up or different, so the concerns might just vanish?

[happygardening]

The wonderful thing about paying is that it opens you up to a world where you have significantly more say and choice over what school your child goes too. And yes you can try and a find a school that's more tailored to your DC and you as a family.
The only sad thing is that so many indepenent schools are virtually identical, so for example if you look on the websites for five well know coed boarding schools they all say the same thing, those with a videos will show you rolling acres, polished children saying that the opportunities and facilities at their school are unique and better than anywhere else, heads will simpler away, telling you how valued your DC will be there, how he or she will be inspired and encouraged to achieve his academic potential, how wonderful the pastoral care is and how unique the whole school is, you will then see a talented pupil beautifully playing the piano or violin, clips drama rugby netball and happy laughing children drinking hot chocolate in boarding houses. No wonder parents struggle to decide between XY and Z. Im coming to the end of 13+ years of schools and have looked round loads from the most famous school in the world to a Steiner schol, I think only a few are truely unique with a completely different ethos you can tell usually within a few lines of reading their website/prospectus. I sometimes wonder if this is because in reality most people don't want something that is very different they want something safe and predictable, that they can understand and they think will deliver what they want, few want to step into the unknown especially when not only is there a large amount of money involved but also our DC's future.

[Railworker]

I didn't mean one-to-one. In primary/prep, indies tend to have smaller class sizes than maintained which is partly (but not solely) why some people choose to send their kids there.

I agree that at 11+ the objective should be more independence. Indeed moving towards this should be the objective throughout primary/prep years whether state or private.

I was thinking more the ratio of staff to pupils and the ethos of the school chosen as being more tailored to a families/child. After all what's the point in agonising over choices if they're all the same?

[happygardening]

"Surely one of the things you are paying for in independent education is individual attention"
I personally think if this is what you're expecting them your expectations are unreasonable. I believe that there is one teacher for every 7 boys at my DS's school which I understand is pretty good, all live on site, but I dont expect individualised attention at every turn. Obviously if there's a significant problem then I hope that staff will give very individualised attention but on a day to day basis by the time they get senior school children should be shifting for themselves, working out what they want and dont want and seeking out the things that interest them if possible avoiding those that dont avoiding those looking for help with subjects if necessary and if for example they feel they've been overlooked they should approach the member of staff themselves to discuss it. Its inevitable that it cant go there way all of the time, and its obvious that our DC's cant have an individualised education unless they're on a one to one but part of growing up is learning that you are not so important that everything has to be tailored to suit you.
At the risk of repeating myself ad infinitum the marvellous thing about boarding is that teaches you life skills and one of those is that you quickly discover that the world does not just evolve around you and what you want or expect, you may not like or want to do X Y or Z but your going to have to put up with it and get on with it because the majority do like it or need it.

[Railworker]

Surely one of the things you are paying for in independent education is individual attention and the possibility of finding the right 'fit'. We are struggling to find the right fit at the moment, and it does sound a little like the school your DS attends suited his brother but not him. Fwiw I think it's really useful to look around and re-evaluate the options, even if you eventually come back to the school he's already attending. What have you got to lose?
IME husbands aren't always best placed to know much about subtle day to day school life issues, and if they're anything like mine, simply hate change. But that is my life - yours may have done loads of in depth research and analysis and spoken at length with parents from lots of different schools...
Good luck OP - it is so difficult to know what to do for the best.

[Dancingdreamer]

Sendsummer - this is my irritation with school. My DD is at a different girls school and they would never let one person be head girl and captain of all the major sports teams. Unfortunately me DS school does have a reputation for being the same in seniors and favouring a few kids (largely those who went through the prep). My eldest DS has been through same school (so have seen this) but he just didn't seem to notice it. My DH just says this is typical of boys schools hence his reluctance to move our youngest.

[sendsummer]

I think what is frustrating about the sort of prep school (and possibly senior school ) that your DS is the lack of interest in the individual and developing them. There is often a rather lazy approach which allows certain personalities (usually self confident ones) and DCs from know track record families (eg sporty families or musical families) to get the most recognition and opportunities.
There seems to be more chance of an individual approach happening in very good boarding prep schools because the house staff see more of the boarders and are more likely to make an effort to get to know them properly. That will also be the case for good housemasters and house tutors at senior boarding school.

I agree that senior schools generally tend to have a bit of a shake up of pupil talents compared to the junior school in through school systems. However it is important that your DS feels listened to about his lack of liking of his current school options. I would certainly embark on visits of boarding school options for him so that you can all (including your DH) make a more informed choice for your DS.

[Procrastin8]

I agree with the A, B and C list theory and, IME, there isn't much movement between groups. DS1 was C list and is much happier at senior school where he has found his groove, DD1 has been A list type all through prep school and may land in senior school with a bump. DS2 is just starting at prep but I predict he will be B.

[happygardening]

IME of preps (which are very traditional conservative with a small c boarding preps by the way not attached to senior schools) is that there's a A list a B list and C list. On the A list are those who are picked for everything and win all the prizes etc. They are often not the brightsest but they are hard working and able and they're often not the best players best but they are the most well behaved and compliant they fit with the schools general ethos, on the B list are often very bright children who for what ever reason can't comply, they don't care about house points or effort marks, they can either be crap at sport general knowledge quits etc or amazing it doesn't because they'll never be the first choice when putting together a team although they will get into teams, as adults they will probably be described by their colleagues as boat rockers or loose canons, on the C list are the rest they're just average nice children who are repeatedly over looked. The wealth or social standing of the parents doesn't enter into this, by the way we've friends who were Sunday Times rich listers and there DC was firmly on the C list. over the years there's been a few post on here about overt favouritism in preps and Im not the only one who say similar to what I've written above.
Senior schools can be different there are more children, more teams, staff are often more imaginative and there's more opportunities to shine because there are simply more opportunities, a friends DS was very firmly on the A list at prep is now at senior school she never stops moaning that he's now only in the 4ths for cricket not even captain or that he didn't win X Prize.
Talk to the head, and other parents if you can, look into the opportunities offered, I'm assuming new children join, are there three of four hockey teams at senior? There's likely to be more than one coach, perhaps other sports he can choose and enjoy, as your DH is not keen on boarding why not give it ago, you're not ruling out moving him at yr 9, assuming your senior school is a reasonable one he can still sit CE, if he's not done Latin for example many schools won't expect him to sit Latin CE. But do visit a few boarding senior schools in the mean time, get a general feel for boarding, talk to the staff, meet a few pupils and listen to what they feel about it, watch the pupils as they go about there daily lives look at all the amazing opportunities that are on offer, your DH might be pleasantly surprised at how happy they are.

[Dancingdreamer]

Thanks everyone for feedback.

Re 11+. We have superselective grammars where we live. So competition very fierce. DS just not in the academic league for these schools. DD was just one comparator. As I said in middle of his school and most in top set of his quite academic prep would just not get into these grammars.

On hockey. All started playing at same time. Captain is good player - no dispute. My point more to demonstrate some of his frustrations and why he is feeling overlooked at school. We have shrugged and said it doesn't matter as long as he plays.

I suppose though I am looking for a sense check here. Am I taking these things out or proportion? Are these the sort of normal frusrations he will get anywhere? Do I keep saying to DS that it doesn't matter and keep soldiering on?

[happygardening]

Maybe the current school advised the OP that he wouldn't pass the 11+?

[Gruach]

But I don't think comparison with a sibling is, by itself, sufficient reason to dismiss a whole avenue of investigation.

I have no experience of applying to grammars - but I do know that where exams are concerned the most unexpected people can succeed where a dead cert has failed. Perhaps your other child had an off day OP - or perhaps their preparation just didn't dovetail with the exam? (You may of course be completely right that your DS wouldn't get in or thrive or whatever - but that's not dependent on what their sibling has done.)

[happygardening]

"You've dismissed the entire possibility of a grammar school for no concrete reason."
Perhaps a little harsh? The OP did state that her older cleverer DC failed the 11+.
Many parents are unhappy about their current school but just don't know what to do for the best; they worry about whether to move them or not. Sometimes it just so difficult to know what to do for the best.
OP I think in your position I'd go and look at all your options, can you talk to the head of the senior school and explain your worries? Assuming it will be a new head and will it be new staff especially sports staff? Do new children join at yr 7? This might change the dynamics a bit those currently on the "A list" might get diluted down by new pupils arriving and new staff looking at things differently. Can you leave your DS at his current school and move him at 13+ if it's not working out? Would he get sufficient preparation for CE?
I completely understand your gripe and frustration about the captain of hockey thing but I do think your being slightly over precious about this. Maybe the current captain has played hockey for the school team all his school career and in his final year his loyalty to it is being rewarded by getting the captains post? Being captain isn't necessarily that great anyway and maybe the boy who got it had lots of experience of being captain if he was already captain of three other team sports. If he's subbed off during a match maybe he just doesn't play with that well for the school. Few if any sports coaches would sub off their best player.