Double vs triple science

[swarskicat]

My DD is in the final stages of choosing her options for GCSE, with the form needing to be in on Friday.

We had always assumed that she would do triple science. She is top set for Science and Maths and wants to do science A levels. She is currently assessed as a 7b in science, with a 7A (86/90) in a their science test recently where they examined on all the science topics they have learnt to date.

We have had a letter from the school saying that they will not be put forward for triple science unless they are consistently above a 6a in their class work, the exam they have just sat and the end of year exam in June. They started the GCSE curriculum the week before half term and the end of year 9 exam is focused entirely on the GCSE work they will do between now and then.

So all good so far, DD is a 7b-7a and loves science - working hard in lessons and for tests. They had science yesterday and DD says that the teacher spent the whole lesson telling them how hard triple science was and that you should not consider doing it, even if you are on a 7, unless you are willing to join lunchtime science club and do 'loads' of extra work on your won - including watching science programmes and reading 'widely' on science current affairs. Teachers views was that it was better to do double and guarantee high grades, rather than get lower grades in triple.

DD is now considering doing double science as, much as she loves science, she spends her lunchtimes doing music and drama clubs (neither of which she is choosing for GCSE) and does not want to drop these.

We have options evening tonight and I will talk to the science teacher. What are peoples views on triple vs double - have your DC's done triple and how did they cope?

[thisagain]

My DD is Year 9, with the same SATs test levels is in exactly the same boat. Her school also has a test to determine whether they are invited to do triple science, but she is at the top of the top science set and her science teacher has discussed whether she would want to do the triple already. She is also taking Music and Dance GCSEs so the teacher's initial reaction was, because the extra science is done after school/lunchtimes, then a double might be better as both those GSCEs also need work on after school and better to get two top grades than to get three lesser grades. However, when she found out that my DD was interested in possibly taking Chemistry or Physics A Level, she said definitely take the triple. In any event, she said you can always drop down to double if it is too much but can't do the reverse. My eldest however, did double and then A Level Biology as her only science A Level, and had no problem bridging the gap between GCSE and A Level with just that one.

[roguedad]

The idea that you need to go to lunchtime clubs and do extra-curricular science just to do triple is ridiculous. I did triple and spent most of my lunchtime in musical activity. I did read around a bit, but only because I wanted to. They are making this up.

[swarskicat]

Following options evening tonight DD is now considering music instead of photography.

The teacher says DD will be doing triple and that (as DD thought) she emphasised that double was absolutely fine for a level scientists to reassure those who will not be allowed to do triple.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Just to add to catslife's post, will the triple is just more work not harder work still apply under the new syllabus?

Obviously everything is still in draft so it could all change a bit. It might mean that what's been true before may no longer been relevant. Particularly with the gradings and what qualifies as a good pass changing as well. Triple, maths and further maths with triple at a faster pace, may not be a good option.

[raspberryrippleicecream]

The specification my DCs school uses for current triple only has 6 exams.

[raspberryrippleicecream]

Only the photography! DD is in Y11 and has done English x2, Maths x 2, Triple science, History, French, Drama and Photography. The photography takes hours and hours. And more hours.

[catslife]

It sounds OK but please bear in mind that the "new" GCSE Maths is harder and should be sufficient preparation for the new Maths a level without the need for Further Maths. Having said that it may be possible to drop out of Further Maths later on.
For the current GCSE system it looks as if dds school go for the separate Physics, Chemistry and Biology route where all exams need to be taken at the end of Y11. It could be different if the school goes down the Core+Additional+further route.
I suspect that comments about the number of exams won't be relevant for the new specifications. I think it will be like the current iGCSE where for each subject (Physics, Chemistry and Biology) paper 1 is for the Double award and Paper 2 is needed for the separate Sciences.
The TBC doesn't help you much OP, I wonder if that means they are considering switching exam boards?

[swarskicat]

DD will be doing
English (2)
Maths and further maths (2)
Hopefully triple science (3)
German
History
Geography
Photography

So 11. Does this sound too may?

[swarskicat]

Just checked the options brochure and exam board 'TBC'!

[Balletgirlmum]

Dd is supposedly a 6b at the moment which considering she was 6a at the end of year 7 I find a bit

However a science teacher friend gave me a couple of sold sats papers for her to sit & she got a level 7 (prob 7c) in them both.

[shank2]

My daughter is y10 - taking core science this year and then additional and further additional next year(y11) - this course is edexcel- this way 3 exams this year and 6 next year

[catslife]

In theory it was level 6a at the end of Y9 for Triple Science, but in practice they used actual levels obtained in Y9 exams as a tie-breaker. So that meant pupils who chose it were level 7s.

[HPFA]

Hope this isn't too much of a hijack but what levels (old-style) were your DCS expected to get to be able to do Triple Science? At DD's school they have to get 6A in science and Maths at the end of Year 8 (as they do a three year GCSE) but from other threads it seems 6A is expected at end of Year 9 in other schools.
At the moment I don't think she'll want to do Triple anyway but it seems a bit unfair if she would have that that choice in other schools but probably not in the one she's at. She probably won't get to 6A by end of Year 8 but might have had a chance at end of Year 9.

[catslife]

For the new specification. Double award is being replaced by combined science (core and additional combined?) and it probably won't be possible to take any exams early at all.
I would check this out with the school dingit. The only current exam designed to be taken in Y10 is Core Science (for Double Scientists only). Triple Scientists would have to take any exams (and controlled assessments) done in Y10 again in Y11. But it is the first result that will count in League Tables so there are consequences for the (state) school as well as the pupil.

[dingit]

No cats, he is at a se London academy!

[catslife]

Ds ( year 10) is doing additional this year, core and triple next year.
Are you in Wales dingit as this sounds like the old modular Science GCSE.
In England for Triple Science all Science exams must be taken at the end of Y11. For Triple science that means 9 exams (3 for each Science subject Chemistry, Physics and biology). The new specifications for first teaching from September 2016 still haven't been approved by the exams regulator. The content of the new exams could be harder than the current ones plus there are difficulties in being the first year group to sit GCSEs under the new system. The new GCSE exams should however be a better preparation for the linear A levels.
Have the school said which exam board the school will be using? For the current syllabus I would say that for AQA unit 3 is harder than units 1 and 2 but other exam boards seem to spread the content differently.
I think your dd should be capable of taking the accelerated Science route with her level of ability. The only thing you don't say is how many GCSE subjects she will be taking in total. Better 9 subjects with higher grades than 11 with lower grades!

[dingit]

Dd did triple and got A* for chemistry. She is finding A level really hard, and wishes she hadn't chosen it. Ds ( year 10) is doing additional this year, core and triple next year. He's muttering about science A levels, and I've told him he's not doing it unless he gets As ( doubtful at the moment as the lazy so and so does no work)

[Fourarmsv2]

Out of interest what exam board is the school using? Some prepare better for A Level than others in my experience.

[teacherwith2kids]

I did some analysis of this for a different thread, looking at similar schools (very good comprehensives) that only did double or did triple - their grades for science A-levels were pretty much indistinguishable. So going from double to A-levels is fine if the whole cohort has done double, but if the school she will do her A-levels at does do triple, then someone just doing double will possibly be at something of a disadvantage - going from double to A-level with a class full of peers who have done double = fine, but if 80% of the class have done triple, then the 20% who haven't are at something of a disadvantage.

Admissions tutors for science courses, even NatSci at Cambridge, are easy about it either way, especially if triple isn't offered at a candidate's school.

[bikingintherain]

I disagree with pp who say triple is no harder, the first modules overlap and are the same, so agree that aspect us no harder. But the last two modules are different and in my opinion (ex chemistry teacher) are much harder. You can't get away with being good at wrote learning, you need to understand the concepts and apply them in different situations. I taught students who I am convinced could have come out with an A in double, but did triple and had to fight hard to get a C.

Most students find the biology easier, but if your DD has a strong background in maths the chemistry and physics shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I taught students at A Level (Chemistry) and generally students who did triple had the edge, certainly for the first term. But it isn't insurmountable. But again it depends, many might disagree with me, but a student who came out with A's in triple compared to A's in double, I would suggest the triple student had a far greater understanding. (Unless of course one of those students were just lazy and couldn't be bothered to work hard)

Admittedly this experience us from about 4 years ago so I could be a little outdated.

[Tfoot75]

It's a while ago but I did double science in a school that didn't offer triple, and went on to take 2 science a levels with the majority of the class having taken triple. I don't recall there being any difference for biology which is module based rather than theoretical, but did feel at a disadvantage in chemistry, although still caught up to be near top of the class. It sounds as if your DD would cope fine with triple, but she would probably be fine with double as well, she might just have to invest more time at the beginning to catch up, but don't think it would affect a-level grades overall if she's a natural scientist.

[Balletgirlmum]

That's a good point tiger, dd excels at chemistry is good at biology but weak in physics so that may drag down a double grade.

[drivinmecrazy]

I would echo what PPs have said. DD1 is doing triple and says that she thinks it's no harder than double. As has been said, main difference is that she's in a class with equal abilities so the class moves at a good pace.
I think DD gets an extra hour a fortnight in her timetable for triple which is taken away from PE, but thats fine because she dances 6 hours a week and is doing GCSE dance so is not massively missing the exercise!
The only daunting thing my DD finds is that she will have to sit more exam papers than her friends doing double, but when she gains an extra GCSE its not much of a sacrifice.
And I say this as a mother to a child who will do her utmost to do the minimum homework possible, but she finds it all doable.
I think maybe something does need to be done to realign the attitude to double versus triple though. Previously I was of the mind that if you don't take triple you must be less able than those that do. Not true, just different paths to potentially the same destination.

[Tigerblue]

We had a dilemma over whether DD should do triple or double science last year - she didn't particularly enjoy it, has always been at the bottom of the top set and the fact there could be extra work.

Now in Year 10 and it's thought she's capable of A*s in chemistry and biology, and struggle to get a C in physics (always been a very weak subject for her compared to others). Now it feels like the right decision was made, she's hopefully going to get two strong GCSEs and hopefully pass the other, whereas if she'd done double then the C would have dragged down her much better grades. She suddenly enjoying biology and considering taking it at A level.

She doesn't feel science has generated lots of extra work for her compared to other subjects. The three science subjects are done on a strict rotation at her school as they know what works and coursework is covered. My DD also does five music clubs and spends extra time at lunchtimes doing her art coursework - science hasn't got in the way of that.

[swarskicat]

Thanks Purple, that is what I think has happened. There are some really bright, but disruptive children in her class and I think that she is trying to get them to focus. Another angle - my DD now thinks that she was also trying to make sure that the children told that they are not allowed to do Triple are not too disappointed. I have spoken to parents of older children at the school who say that they are really strict on who they think will cope with the workload and some of the children in the top sets who think they will do triple are told that they should opt for double.