GCSE Mock results. What to do now!

[decisionsdecisions123]

Hello

I'm just here for a bit of a ramble/any ideas. My son just received his mock gcse results. I'm not sure what to think. It would have been too much to hope for A and B grades but I'm still disappointed though not surprised. He does the bare minimum when it comes to school work/revision.

Grades are ranging from the odd high C to middle D grades plus an F and a G though he insists the F must be wrong and will ask about it on Monday. School states that they want 5 A to C grades to enter Sixth form and pref B grades for the subjects you want to study in sixth form. I'm not sure how flexible schools are when it comes to letting people in if they don't quite make the grades. I think I am just feeling unsure as to what happens next. Closing ate for applying to sixth form is the end of January so very little time to think about what to do. All the schools seem to be asking for A to C grades. The colleges worry me as they are so huge and I am not sure if they are the best environment for my son. I did a course in a local one a few years ago and it just didn't seem like a nice learning environment for young people.

Is there much hope of him pulling his grades up to B and C grades between now and the real exams? At the end of year 10 he was on an F for Maths and now managed to get a D grade, only 4% away from a C. He is on a middle C for English and Science. I am very upset that he chooses to do the absolute bare minimum when I have offered so many times to help him with work/revision. I am trying hard not to shout and get cross, he says he is quite happy with his grades as he has improved in all of them but of course they were low to begin with ( spent a lot of time messing around in year 9 and most of year 10).

I'm not sure what I'm asking and I am aware this probably doesn't make total sense! Can I still apply to his school for sixth form even though he doesn't have high grades or is it a waste of a choice? I don't feel the school have given us any information at all regarding next steps. there seemed to be a lot more help going from primary to secondary, now it seems like you're on your own.

Many thanks for reading.

[bigTillyMint]

Well there is definitely still hope. But only if he wants to put his mind to it. DC can and do jump 2 grades when they sit the actual GCSES, but they have to make the effort!

If his predicted grades are C's, then I would urge him/you to look at a different route to A'levels. My DD got very good grades in her GCSES and she is finding A'levels a huge step up, and they require lots of extra independent study. If he is not good at doing that, then he might be better off looking at other options. I guess you know that you can get onto degree courses with various BTECS and other qualifications - it doesn't have to be A'levels. If university is actually what he wants to do.

[TeenAndTween]

vocational BTECs are at far away colleges

How far? My DD travels an hour door to door to do her desired BTEC-A level combination.

Have a look at this years 'starting 6th form' and 'BTEC' threads. You might find them informative. There is a poster Draylon who has been having trouble with her bright-but lazy son doing A levels, you may her posts particularly insightful.

If he is not willing to work he won't cut it on A level courses. I agree with the others, you wouldn't want to do A levels based on only 5Cs. Either you are not academically able enough, or you don't work hard enough.

Even vocational Level 3 BTECs will be looking at 5Cs minimum. Otherwise it is a Level 2 (GCSE equivalent) course for a year first. BTECs also require a good degree of diligence, as there are regular assignments that count towards the final grade.

I think in your situation you MUST go and look at vocational courses. And what is more you MUST apply to one. He needs a fall-back plan (or 2). Also look at apprenticeships.

Also, think about: Why would his (or any) 6th form be willing to take a punt on a lazy child? If he doesn't meet the minimum criteria, they won't take him, barring exceptional circumstances.

Hopefully looking at other less desirable options will make him get his act together.

Good luck!

[LIZS]

Any level 3 - be it btec, nvq, A level , IB et al - will require English and Maths at c or above. Focus on these and at least 5 at c or above. You may be lucky and he gets accepted on the proviso that he takes a level 2 numeracy alongside if he gets a d but it depends how competitive an entry it is. However with C grades, A levels in 6th form may not be the best option so do look at the alternatives offered by FE and 6 th for, colleges.

[TeenAndTween]

OP. There are a wide variety of BTECs available, you may need to hunt around at any college your son could travel to. Including IT, Business, Engineering etc.

Much better to be looking now than in a panic in August.

[lljkk]

15 minute walk away is A-level college, though they offer 4 L3 BTECs too.

Colleges with large range of vocational options are 75-120 minutes each way from here.

[CointreauVersial]

Oh, this is really worrying me.

DS's predictions are straight Cs (although, as I said, he does have one B in the bag already). And the perceived wisdom seems to be that he shouldn't do A levels if he only achieves C grades......argh....His sixth form (which is where he wants to stay) ONLY offer A levels, no BTECs, whereas the brilliant local sixth form college offer a massive range of both. I'm concerned he'll scrape the grades but choose to stay on at school.....then fail to keep up at A level......then what? At least if he goes to the college they've said they are very flexible regarding changes to courses, but he's not convinced he wants to go there.

He is less keen to do BTECs because he feels he performs better at exams than at coursework (probably true; he has an excellent memory for all that last-minute cramming), and there is no way he'd consider anything vocational - partly snobby reasons, I think ("I'm not going to a hairdressers college!") but also he has no practical abilities at all to fall back on.

Sorry, OP....I'm hijacking here (or rambling on....)! Best get myself over to the teen/education threads. But it's not what I think/believe that matters really - it's him that I have to persuade.

[TeenAndTween]

Cointreau In your position I would have a clear conversation with school as to how well they think your son would do at A level. They know him, and they teach A levels so they should be in a position to advise.

What you have to remember, is that Cs at GCSE are the minimum grade to proceed to A level. So Cs at GCSE translate to Cs, Ds and Es at A level. (Because roughly the A/A kids who get the A-B, and the B kids who get the B-D). There is an interesting report you can search for which shows how certain grades at GCSE translate to grades at A level for specific subjects.

With my DD we took the decision that 3Ds at A level was unlikely to get her to university so she would then be looking for a job. And a better foundation for job hunting would perhaps be a vocational course with practical knowledge and experience.

Again, I would advise looking with an open mind (even, well if you had to do a BTEC, what would you choose and why), and sticking an application in anyway. Nothing to lose.

[decisionsdecisions123]

Please feel free to hijack the thread TeenandTween its actually really helpful to hear from others in the same boat.

Lots of food for though here though its quite scary to be told DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT A LEVELS with C grades. I know there are lots of Btec type quals in Business and IT and so on but what if you want to keep it broad as you aren't totally sure what it is you want to do in life. I just feel that qualifications in English, Geog, History, French etc open up more opportunities than specifically studying IT or Childcare or taking on an apprenticeship. Maybe I'm wrong?

[TeenAndTween]

We thought about this really hard for DD. (She was confirmed as having dyspraxia Dec of y11. and struggles with organisation, essays and logical thinking. But did get 5Bs and 3Cs for GCSE)

For her at least, we had to balance her having no idea what she wanted to do in life, with the strong possibility that she would come out of 6th form with 3Ds or lower for A level. We looked at all the available vocational courses that even might vaguely have suited and applied for both A levels at one place, and vocational elsewhere.

We and she decided, rightly or wrongly, that a vocational qualification might give her more chance of a job age 18 than relatively poor A levels. (We don't think she will be suited to university). Our thinking was would you rather employ someone with poor A levels, or someone with learning and skills which more directly apply to your business.

No idea whether this was correct logic or not though! But she is enjoying the course and she would not have coped with the A levels she preferred.

[noblegiraffe]

Here's the report that shows the impact of GCSE grade on A-level grade

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/183942/DFE-RR195.pdf page 18 onwards.

However don't take it as reassurance that students on a C can still get good grades at A-level. The report only looks at students who continued to A-level. The majority of students who start AS on a low GCSE grade will either crash and drop out, fail their AS, not get a good enough grade to be allowed onto A2, or get a worse grade than their other subjects and drop it. A huge number of students who fail in Y12 are missing from these stats and so they are incredibly skewed towards success. For example, it looks like 1% of students who get a C at GCSE maths get an A at A-level. This is obviously ridiculous. 1% of students who manage to persuade a sixth form to let them take maths on a C, then manage to pass AS go on to get an A at A-level. These are clearly exceptional students, not lazy-arse coasters. Even though the stats are skewed towards successes, the outcomes for C grade students are usually D or below.

The report also shows that only about 5% of students in state comps progress onto A-level Geography or English with a C. The reason for this is because state schools set entry requirements which will mean that student has a good chance of passing. Your DS currently does not.

[noblegiraffe]

To clarify my last post, even though those graphs in the document only contain C grade students who managed to get onto a course and get through AS, so are C grade students who have done unusually well, they are still in the main headed for grades at D or below. That's the best case scenario.

[catslife]

I suspect that the students with C grades at GCSE who went on the achieve well at A level had extenuating circumstances e.g. illess or bereavement during their GCSE years which affected their results.

I have a dd in Y11 and the school are really working hard to make sure that "borderline" pupils obtain their grade Cs in Maths and English this year. (This is because the only opportunity to resit the same GCSE course will be in Nov 2016 and the only exams available in the Summer are for the new 9-1 Maths and English GCSEs). They are providing extra tuition, smaller class size for the lower sets etc.
Some FE or 6th form colleges may permit dcs who only have to retake either Maths or English (but not both) onto level 3 courses.
dds school only offers A levels and they are strongly encouraging pupils who are unsure whether they will meet the entry requirements to have a back-up plan in place.

[popuptent]

Hi, glad that I am not alone on this. I am feeling really really stressed over forthcoming GCSEs and I fear this stress can only get worse. I am finding it impossible to take a back seat. He got a straight flush in his mocks: A, B, C, D, E and F. The A and B prove that he can do it but he clearly needs to do more revision. He's got catch up lessons and booster sessions now starting for most of the subjects at school. It's going to be a tough few months!

[clary]

Yes OP I am a secondary teacher, as is noblegiraffe who is speaking sense on here (as ever). As are lots of others.

I'm afraid a clutch of Cs should not allow your DS to access A levels. Yes, a sixth form may allow it but if they do, I highly doubt that he will pass them. C at GCSE only leads to a pass at A-level, as others say, if there were other reasons such as illness.

It may seem harsh but it's much better to face the facts. It's just that there is such a jump from GCSE to A level. My lovely but very non-academic DS1 was in yr 11 last year and got a C in his maths (we were so proud of him as it was really really hard for him). There is no way on God's green earth he could ever ever do A level maths. Or A level anything.

I teach MFL and those of my students who will get a C this year are miles off the level needed for A level in my subject. If they were near the standard needed to progress to A level, they would be working at B/A-grade. I'll be made up if they get Cs, and you should be pleased for your DS too. C grades are excellent, they can take you to all sorts of places and open doors for you. But they just don't show the level of academic ability or hard work needed for A level.

Colleges local to us do courses in things like music, catering and hospitality, computing and programming and lots more.

[bojorojo]

OP. The reason schools have to publish the 5 A*-C percentages is that the C grade is the lowest mark for a child to be considered academic. Anyone trying to write essays at A level with a low C in English will find it very challenging. Trying to do sciences and maths with Cs is virtually impossible too. What grades were required years ago is not indicative of today's requirements. Look at more practical courses as many have suggested. A levels graded a D or below are not much use really. Added to which, your DS does not appear to relish hard work.

[CointreauVersial]

Thanks TeenandTween - good suggestions.

Interestingly, although DS doesn't know what he wants to do, he is fairly clear he's not interested in going to university. I'm not engaging in a discussion about this now, just taking one stage at a time. If he gets as far as A levels, then we'll see.

The frustrating thing is - he's bright! He just doesn't apply himself. He's the carbon-copy of my DB, who got average GCSEs, poor A levels, scraped into a lower-league uni.....and is now in a senior position at a city bank, extremely successful. The classic late-bloomer. Meanwhile, I went to Oxford, and am coasting along in a mummy-job......

OP, does your DS have any view on what he wants to do?

[GasLIghtShining]

I know there are lots of Btec type quals in Business and IT and so on but what if you want to keep it broad as you aren't totally sure what it is you want to do in life.
That was my thoughts a few years ago and so my DD picked her four subjects and it went downhill from there. She found some subjects so difficult on top of not dealing with exam situation well. She had only passed some of her GCSEs because of coursework. Over her dead body was she going to consider university as it would have meant a third year at college. I wish I had known about mumsnet back then.

I would certainly consider what clary and noblegiraffe are saying.

TeenandTween talks sense too. As she says BTEC is not necessary an easy option as you can't wing it until the exams. Assessments are set throughout and there is not an option to do it again (except in certain circumstances)

My DS was a lazy little at school and nothing I did seem to work. He managed 8 (not sure he deserved it) but failed his English. He has come into in his own with BTEC. I think in his situation he is doing what he enjoys rather than boring RE etc. He is going to university in September. Last year he passed his functional skills in English and is taking his GCSE in the summer.

Get to those open days and look at all options.

[DickDewy]

I wouldn't worry too much.

I think bad mock results can be a nice kick up the bum sometimes.

My son, predicted all A*, A at GCSE did quite badly in his mocks but achieved all his target grades in the real thing.

[CointreauVersial]

Also, OP, our local sixth form college seems to offer BTECs in a massive range of subjects - not just Business Studies/IT and vocational stuff. They offer science, languages, humanities etc. For all of the subjects DS has chosen he could do either A level or BTEC. Or a mixture! It might be worth checking what's out there local to you. Maybe go to some open days?

I'm surprised you haven't had any guidance from your school, though.

[IguanaTail]

Mocks are the best indicator of results in August. They aren't marked harshly, they are normally the 2015 summer exams which have mark schemes and raw-ums conversion tables. What you do need to know is whether or not they have included the controlled assessments that he has done. It is worth finding out if there are any subjects where he can do an additional CA to boost the marks. A few students in a class I have inherited are going to do another CA in MFL for me.

As pp have said, it is very rare he will be taken on an A level course with a C - if they haven't shown the capability st GCSE to get higher than a C when so much is teacher directed, they aren't going to cope with A level. Even a B can be risky.

All you can do is do the best you can for him. If he gets the grades he needs, he will be accepted into a sixth form whether or not he has originally applied there - there are lots of students changing their minds on results day.

[clary]

Can I just add that my DS1 is at college studying catering and really enjoying it. For once in his life he is near the top of the class and actually got a prize in December for the best homework all term.

Just saying that A-levels and 6th form are not the be-all and end-all and are really not for everyone.

Worth looking at apprenticeships too if he knows what he wants to do OP.

[CointreauVersial]

Clary - that sounds like my DNephew. He is in his element studying catering, and already works part-time in a local restaurant.

DS, on the other hand, has no practical skills whatsoever.

[RaskolnikovsGarret]

My colleague failed all his GCSE mocks, was severely reprimanded by his father, and went on to get all A and A* grades. He was clearly lazy, but clever - but proves it is possible to get significant improvements in the real thing.

[homebythesea]

OP what does your DS say about all this? Have you had a conversation along the following lines

A) what do you think are your realistic chances at GCSE
B) what do you think you would be able to do with those grades?
C) depending on the answer to B administer a reality check
D) if he gets less than C in English and/or maths dies he know he has to keep taking them until he does?

Etc etc

He needs to start taking responsibility now, it's not down to you to do all the worrying (easier said than done I know). It's his future which will be shaped in part by his GCSE results

[decisionsdecisions123]

Thanks everyone. I hope this has been a helpful thread to lots of other people too. I spent most of the day and this morning thinking of lots of different options. I am glad I started this thread. I stupidly thought you apply to sixth form with one centralised form (did I say that earlier??) I now see that a school local to me closed their application way back in November which seems ridiculously early in the year.

I have tried to talk to my son without it ending in a shouting match (very hard!). He seems to want to go down the business studies route. He was also keen on doing geography as an A level and possibly English but unless miracles happen I think it is unlikely.

I have had a look at BTEC Business Studies which his school offers at a level 3 and is the equivalent of 2 A levels. I will ask if he would be able to take this or not. Another college around an hour away also offers it so I will see whatthey are saying. Does anyone know if you just take 1 Btec level 3 at 6th form or do you also do another course alongside it? His school website isn't the most informative.

I have also looked at apprenticeships but I just worry about leaving with a low level qualification at the end and possibly only low entry job prospects. What happens for example. if you take an apprenticeship in plumbing and then discover that you really didn't enjoy it?

Things that interest him seem to be buying and selling and estate agency type work. I know you can get an apprecticeship in an estate agents but surely to progress higher you need to have a degree ( I have looked at Savilles website for example).

The other thing about apprenticeships I have discovered (just to bring it to peoples attention) is that yo would lose your child benefit, some tax credits, housing benefit to name the ones I remember but there were lots others listed. From having a quick read it seems that a parent on a low income would be an awful lof worse of if their child does a paid apprenticeship. The £130 ish pounds a week the child earns wouldn't make up for it and it seems quite harsh to send your 16 year old off to work 40 hours a week only to take all of their money from them and still be left out of pocket!

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions/experiences. I hope we will all come back to update on our thoughts as time goes on.