Luxury problem - but I don't know what to do, Harrow, Radley or Winchester?

[earsarehurting]

Here we go again I can imagine you thinking, but before I get shot down, I am aware that we are in a very privileged position to have the choice between such excellent schools (we have offers from all for 2017) - but I am bewildered and confused by the choice and all my reasoning and lists of pros and cons are each leaving me with utterly different results, so I am hoping for some insight from you wise people.

I have read all the threads I can come over siting the schools above. I see that there is a lot of passionate support for Winchester which is great, but I haven't had the same sense for the other schools and to be honest - no matter how much I try to research, read, ask people in my community - we are left wanting one school one day and one the other, depending on my (and DS') mood.

A little about DS:
We live in similar distance from all the schools, so travel will not be a deciding factor. DS is academic, very sporty, loves rugby (but will not make him dismiss Winchester for this reason as he will never be a pro rugby player if i have anything to do with it...)he is a true team player, though very competitive, plays music, but is not too keen on drama and art.

Dilemma 1) got a place on Wardens list at Radley, thus will not know which Social (house) until after CE - which worries me as everyone I speak to say the house and mostly the HM is so important?
Dilemma 2) Does Harrow really have a bad reputation (Nice but dim, monied, frightfully snobbish etc), a lot of "baggage" as another poster put it?
Dilemma 3) DS is far removed from being either quirky or a nerd, very normal, very outgoing boy and I am hard pushed to see him as Winchester boys seem to be described (or aren't they and I have just got the wrong end of the stick?)
Dilemma 4) Winchester has a new Head coming in, how will this impact on the school for better, worse or not much at all?
Dilemma 5) A registrar (not at one of the above schools) told me to hold on to any places we have for as long as possible, just in case. I understand what he is saying, but it seems almost immoral to me that if you have made a choice to hold on to a place you do not want and thus making waiting list boys hang on unnessesarily long?

Any input much appreciated, I don't think I can be more confused than I am already.

[Ericaequites]

Something that may seem like an advantage to one set of parents maybe a disadvantage to others. For example, I can’t carry a tune in a bucket, so wouldn’t find good music classes important. I’m a quilter and seamstress, sound want good Textiles teaching with very little Project Runway nonsense.

[Astras]

Hi if anyone could answer my comment that would be great.

Winchester College 16+ Entry www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4323578-winchester-college-16-entry

[tangerino]

IME Winchester boys aren't necessarily nerdy. It's more that, if a boy is nerdy, he won't feel left out there- all types fit in. Plenty of outgoing, non-nerdy boys!

[Ericaequites]

Have you asked your current Headmaster which school might suit your son the best? Also remember that diversity is not always an advantage. Good manners and working hard will take you son anywhere.

[Cannon15]

Thank you honey spider
We have a WArdens List place for our son at Radley. He had the choice of 4 schools and Radley was his preferred choice (my husband and I liked all the schools for differing reasons and so felt the final decision should be his).

I have been worried since we made the decision (and turned down the others!) that Radley didn't perform very well in the A Level league tables this year. Whilst I know a school is so much more than league tables, for how much money (and it will be a stretch for us) we are investing into Radley for our son, I would like to know that he has the best teaching, support and opportunities available to him

[HoneySpider]

Just a brief note from parents who had the same Radley, Eton, Harrow, Winchester dilemma 5 years ago.

We did deep due diligence. Concluded by choosing Radley via the Wardens List, and we have been lucky that it has been an outstanding experience for him. It is really an all rounders school in the sense it brings out the very best in everyone. The waiting list is so long they don't need to tolerate the "druggy brigade", prima donna kids or their flash parents etc. Don't fret about which Social, they are all good and broadly based. Each boy just becomes proud of their own "house". The parents are welcome, and included if they wish to be, and a very pleasant lot they are too.

Just well rounded boys emerge who are a delight to talk to - polite, very comfortable with adults and themselves - with a nice underlying steely touch of quiet inner confidence. Great friendships too. Smaller than the industrial scale Etons and Harrows - with just 700 boys it is more exclusive and intimate on one wonderful 800 acre site. (Having said that he is often with Radley friends in London/Oxford mixing freely with a cadre of other friends from good girls schools, and a smattering of less brash Etonians & Harrovians). There are less distractions generally on the wonderful campus hence the rising academic performance...with such outstanding on site facilities, teams and activities....plenty of time for parties at University and later.

Interesting that one correspondent encountered some "rude and arrogant" Shells - the name for the new, first year, boys. That may be what a few are like when they arrive to go into the school - however judge it by its finished product rather than the increasingly diverse and higher standard raw material that goes in. They will soon have such pre-conceived prep school attitudes charmingly polished out of them. The boys genuinely seem to look out for one another - and that behaviour - letting Radley down - would not last long.

Just great young men emerge....as my daughter's friend's perceptive mother observed...." they make ideal son-in-laws!" which is a little bizarre, but a telling, judgement.

J Moule, the newish Warden, is a smart man who knows to preserve the best of what is already working so well there on many levels, whilst gently keeping it contemporary and forward thinking. Well set up, I would say, for an excellent decade ahead.

Good luck with your decision.

[Xpatmama88]

Happy, DS is travelling on Friday, can't wait! Have a wonderful Christmas and a very successful 2016!

[happygardening]

Yes I know that's what I tried to say but you worded it better!
I'm sure like me you're looking forward to Thursday or may you DS is staying till Frid, it's our last Illumina.
Have a restful Xmas break.

[Xpatmama88]

Happy, in Wincoll Maths/Further Maths are grouped as 1 subject block for the lessons, but actually count as 2 Pre-U subjects for examination, they all need to take at least 2 more other subjects. So all boys taking Maths/Further Maths will end up having 4 Pre-U. I know few very able boys who take 3 more subjects on top of Maths/Further Maths. They will have 5 Pre-U.

[happygardening]

I'm in two minds, Pre Us are significantly harder, their grade equivalents carry more UCAS points to reflect this. DS could easily do both AS and A level for two of his subjects by the end of yr 11, teachers tell me it's more joined up and I was told by a boy who did 1 yr of Pre U's and then transferred to A2 that the writing style for Pre U is not prescribed, he found the A2 boring and very prescribed. I was recently talking to a girl at another school doing the A2 equivalent of one of the subjects my DS does and I thought the syllabus was definitely less interesting she said it was boring and she wished she'd never chosen it. I'm told Pre U MFL is very much harder as is further math, considered by boys at Win Coll to be exceptionally difficult and only the very able at math should tackle it. Many subjects have a "PI" personal investigation some if not all (I don't know) also have to present their findings to an outside examiner. So it's significantly more work. DS thinks it's a point scoring exercise on behalf off the school and the few I've spoken too think the new head will go back to the A2 now it's been changed. It's apparently popular with top Canadian universities because it's so much more demanding.
Not sure how helpful that is?

[earsarehurting]

I can appreciate 3 pre-Us only - it sounds like plenty. I have heard from a few boys that they wish they could do a-levels instead, do you have any thoughts?

[happygardening]

OP at Winchester most boys only do three Pre Us, math/further math counts as 1, the Pre U are significantly more rigorous and boys I understand were finding it hard to get 4As or A*s.

[earsarehurting]

Incase I was reading that as well, and thought it sounded rather inflexible. The three a-levels only is also a little limiting. I also came accross that they only do double science for GCSEs?

Oh Happy I could not agree with you more. The longer they can wait with choosing direction the better (to a limit of course, I have friends from uni who are still looking for that elusive direction).

Wurzel do you think the move from Eton to Radley will now change again as Radley are introducing more selective intake?

[happygardening]

I'm struggling to remember (?old age) but I don't think we had to choose from blocks when we chose DS2's Pre U choices I got the impression almost anything was possible God know how they work that out. Best of all he didn't have to choose till May/June of year 11 and even it was implied he could change his mind over the summer holidays.
I think children are made to choose to early (no fault of any of these schools of course) so the longer they can leVe it the better.

[incaseithelps]

earsarehurting I've just done some internet browsing and found this link www.radley.org.uk/Sixth-Form-Curriculum The information about subject blocks are in the section on choosing. They say that fixed time tabling is required for correct ability setting. However Harrow which has a similar academic range implies that it is more accommodating if choices outside suggested blocks are made.
Interestingly Radley is moving to 3 A levels from the start of sixth form now.

[incaseithelps]

The one thing about 'county set' types is that they usually have good manners as I said sadly lacking in the couple of boys I met the other week.
Is that due to country set going bad or horror the wrong sort of diversification infiltrating Radley . It is true that Radley boys have usually as a group been very polite and pleasant in straightforward way.

[wurzeldrink]

The boys we know that are down for Radley are boys that twenty years ago would have gone to Eton,but now its very selective would not get in,very traditional UMC.

[earsarehurting]

Incase thank you for the clarification. Does this mean that Radley are completely fixed on their block system with no flexibility? I am not saying it would matter to us, but it is, as I think you are alluding to - a matter of attitude towards the individuals choice which I guess would fit into the ethos of the boys fits the school rather than the school fitting around the boys?

I get the impression Happy that the "country set" referenced has more to do with being inward looking and middle England (another expression I have often heard in the same sentence as Radley) and not very international or forward thinking?

[happygardening]

"The present warden of Radley has obviously been selected to shake off the closed 'country set' view of Radly"
The one thing about 'county set' types is that they usually have good manners as I said sadly lacking in the couple of boys I met the other week.

[incaseithelps]

The A level choices have to be made from certain grouped subjects. That is not unique to Radley and for most boys would n't be a problem but many other of these schools try and accommodate any combination. Winchester does for example which demonstrates making that extra effort in time tabling to accommodate the individual. Radley's approach just (perhaps unjustly) reinforces my personal impression of Radley fitting a boy to a system rather than the other way round.

[earsarehurting]

incase I see what you mean now - and yes I agree, new leadership will inevitably bring change, it just depends on where the change comes. It seems the Radley parents I know are very happy with the changes made, the Win Col parents a little more and I am still rather surprised at the WinCol appointment though as Happy says, he comes from day schools who's ethos and work methods surely would differ quite dramatically from that of a full boarding school.

My DS is mad about Rugby (although as I said earlier, I wont let that be a deciding factor in this decision) so the Rugby at Radley (or Harrow) will not put him off at all.

You say the a-level choices are regimented at Radlley incase what do you mean with that?

Happy - isnt it funny how differently we see things (ref the two boys take on sports at Win Col).

I am learning a lot from this thread - thank you all!

[incaseithelps]

earsarehurting I am not saying that change does n't happen but it is usually in line with a shared vision with the governors. For example the present Warden of Radley has obviously been selected and encouraged to shake off the closed 'country set' view of Radley and diversify the intake.

[incaseithelps]

I know a fair number of Radley boys / families. When I say the housemasters are variable it concerns how active they are in helping the boys get the most out of school as individuals with thoughtful opportunities put their way rather than sitting back and just allowing the school system to do the work. That system functions best for boys who fit into the moulds. For example boys who don't do drama as a GCSE usually get sidelined for main school plays. The top rugby team players may include some very good singers but usually they remain quite rugby cliquey. (BTW Rugby is a must for the first term of each school year and certainly dominates for the kudos it gives to be a good player). A musical boy who also likes sport but not top team level will do fine. Radley's A level choice is similarly quite regimented. As a school it works well for many and with very high quality teaching staff. Obviously the first years have the standard good pastoral care but as they get older they may not have the sort of relationship with the housemasters which allows them to easily and comfortably tap into good advice etc.

[happygardening]

1805 a lot I suspect depends on your DS's individual perspective/personality; I recently and separately was talking to two boys at Winchester one thought there was to much sport with too many sports obsessed boys which I have to say is not a comment I've ever heard before but this boy loathed all sport, another felt that there was not enough sport and that most boys didn't take it very seriously or were that interested he was moaning about the lack of team sports.
With regard to the new head if as a parent your generally happy with a school then obviously any change in leadership is viewed with concern and even suspicion thus applies not just to schools of course change in leadership in most areas in viewed with concern by those who are happy with the current leadership. But I think because he's previously been a head at day schools it's inevitable that parents will wonder about him becoming the head of a schol that's very definitely full boarding and therefore has a completely different ethos.

[earsarehurting]

Milly Thank you for your insight re Harrow - very pleased to hear that there is diversity and not all the "rumours" re snobbery is true. I did not know about the photgraphy - how wonderful!

1805 thank you too for your insight re Radley. I got the impression too that Rugby only is a must in first term. We were told we have no input at all in the Social (I have tried) so I am not sure it is worth seeing any more?

Incase Milly I see where you are coming from re a new head, but at our prep we got a new head last year, and though only superficial changes were made to start with, some quite fundemental changes are happening now. I think you can see the same at Radley who got their new Warden last year and changes are now coming in that according to some current parents I know, will change quite a bit of the schools fundemental building blocks such as the entrance system (probably overdue an overhaul), becoming more international etc? Change feels like it is inevitable within the medium to long term with a new leader (unless he walks in the same path as the old one, which is rare, especially when recruited from outside) - I might be very wrong of course!