Up to date o Haverstock and Acland Burghley

[champs]

Hi all, been searching for some info about both schools but only came across an old thread from 09.

I'm fairly new to area and don't know much about the schools. These two are nearer than ds2 current school and have spaces for his year group. Ds3 will follow him in September.

[BettyBrightStar]

He was sacked by Acland Burghley when it came to light but I doubt this Deputy Head provided a nurturing environment for girls.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6826911/Ex-headteacher-admits-taking-cocaine-watching-live-streamed-video-children-abused.html

[GreenAndSpringy]

thanks, @Camdenish
I hadn’t taken your post negatively, but I can see my post could be taken as a curt response. That wasn’t my intent at all... honest! :)
Have just filled in our Census today and this is kind of a similar deal: a snapshot of our thoughts, impressions, aspirations(?) and those of people we know. Later this year, or next year, or in a few years time there will be carers combing through these threads trying to make the best decisions they can for their own kids. Some of us might even want to be reminded as to why we made our own decisions (“Choisir c'est renoncer” after all!). These threads are valuable for so many reasons. Everything related to schools changes so much from year to year, our own opinions most of all!

[Camdenish]

Sorry if that post sounded a bit snippy Green. I had intended to write an in-depth response and a life event happened and I posted what I had written rather than revisiting it.

I am sure there are girls whose parents chose AB for them over other schools, it's just I know parents who haven't! I have heard of lots of good things about the school but it isn't surprising to me that it has risen back up in people's esteem. It had a strong starting point and a lot of love for it. Its blip and fall from grace seem to be the anomaly.

The male-female disparity is something that has surrounded AB for a long time but it is shocking to see it written so large. I hope that can be addressed. I wouldn't want my daughter to be the guinea pig in it and I would want to know why this has happened.

I hope that Haverstock does the same as Acland Burghley. There seems to be a lot of love for the sort of liberal education that AB offers and that used to be Haverstock's forte too I believe. However, I know parents who think AB is too middle class so sent their children elsewhere. The whole school thing can be so divisive

[GreenAndSpringy]

I personally know three girls with older brothers at AB who made it their first choice this year. Have only heard positive (glowing) comments from those who actually attend.
Quite extraordinary how high it has climbed in people’s esteem in such a short time. I’m expecting results to further improve in the next few years, and the gender disparity to narrow also.

[Camdenish]

Thanks, it's difficult to understand the conversation as there are so many gaps in it.

I am shocked by the disparity between the girls and boys at AB. I am afraid I don't know anyone with an older son there who sent their younger daughter there if they had the chance of PH or CSG.

[GreenAndSpringy]

Here’s Haverstock’s snap shot of disparity in attainment between girls and boys.

[GreenAndSpringy]

Am posting this as a revisit - I found it very interesting and informative to see impressions and predictions on Acland Burghley from 5 years ago. The pace of improvement (or rather “perceived” improvement, as that’s what counts) has been faster than was foreseen, but the contributors to the thread were spot on, all things considered 👍.

Acland Burghley is now one of the hardest schools to get into within Camden. Furthest allocated distance jumped from 0.99 miles in 2018 to 0.71 in 2019 and 0.64 in 2020. I know local girls with older siblings at AB who have opted to go there rather than take a place at Camden School for Girls.

LSU was oversubscribed when this thread was active but has not been this year.

Haverstock still hasn’t found a way to interlink positive reports from students who go there with a willingness to put it down on the list of preferences by parents. I can’t help but wonder if ditching the uniform would help!

What I find curious is how differently girls and boys fare at AB when it comes to the “headline” results. At RC Maria Fidelis (which used to be a girls’ school and is predominately female after going co-ed) the story is flipped with the better results coming from girls. I have attached a table from //www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk showing AB’s disparity in performance.

I find AB’s to be a fascinating story and am looking forward to learning more, now and over the next few years. My own dd won’t be attending AB but our lives are still very much entwined with the fortunes of this and other Camden schools.

[forkhandles4candles]

When I visited H IN 2014 I really liked it, was impressed by the honesty of the head, who did not gloss over the challenges. Really liked the way all the students seemed different, diverse but happy in themselves. 2015 I went again and found it really depressed, students seemed disengaged. How much can one take from these snapshots I wonder. Anyone done the MEET THe PARENTS thing. I found out too late.

[anotherbusymum14]

Yeah I saw and heard about fighting going on and many "incidents" that they had there. I suppose you dont have to be thick skinned if that helps, but there were many incidents and I was only there briefly a couple of times. So in my summing up it was either a really bad couple of days but they didn't give that impression. Great teachers though who dealt with it really well.

[forkhandles4candles]

anotherbusymum - where did you go in the end? Is your DC happy?

[anotherbusymum14]

We considered Haverstock. It wasn't a problem getting in and we lived quite a way away. Great teachers working to make it a great school but I think you'd need to be fairly thick skinned to survive there. I do think it would be a good school though as the teachers seemed friendly and dedicated. Ackland Burghley although doesn't have a great reputation in the area, hired a new Head that had already turned another school around, and was brought in to do the same. So I think it was on the up last time I heard.

[AgonyBeetle]

I doubt it will be La Sainte Union as they're significantly oversubscribed already, I suspect the offered alternative will be Bishop Douglass in Finchley.

I'm not surprised they're closing, they've been under-subscribed for years. Maria Fidelis went co-ed a few years ago while retaining their catholic status, but given that there's an undersubscribed Catholic co-ed already I can see why the diocese feel they can't continue to support it.

It seems very wrong that Islignton are not allowed to take over the school themselves tbh, it would make for more coherent planning, adn there clearly is a demand for another good non-faith co-ed locally.

[AgonyBeetle]

Yes, Central Foundation is another real success story, yet 10 years ago was quite meh - not terrible, but not sought-after.

I think AB's USP is that unlike HG and the academy-style schools, it doesn't have the zero-tolerance Mossbourne-style discipline, but like Parli and WE treats the students as if they're capable of making sensible decisions.

Stop press though: did you see in today's Islington Tribune that Mount Carmel is closing and reopening as a co-ed non-denominational school in 2017? So that may be another option for people a few years ahead: www.islingtontribune.com/mountcarmelacademy Will be a shocker for people who have actively chosen it on their CAF in the current admissions round, though. Yikes.

[forkhandles4candles]

EGA has become fairly popular these last two years in my DD's school amongst the slightly bohemian MCs - so I think the shift is occurring there. Really did not like it myself though compared to Camden schools.

[Coffeeismycupoftea]

StMM has slightly different catchment (more of barnsbury), also lots of the sort of HG targeted parents don't want a faith school/academy.

EGA is a funny one. I think parents I know feel uncomfortable with their (white) children being in such a minority. Wrongly or rightly. That certain minorities might be unlikely to let their daughters out much which leads to a restricted social life for others.

Central Foundation had this a bit but that seems to be changing. Maybe it's different for boys.

[AgonyBeetle]

Haha, interesting, Coffee! I think the Grauniad got it wrong, tbh, cos JC lives in Finsbury Pk, which is Highbury Grove catchment, and it was our local catchment school at that time too, so I dimly remember the story from the first time around.

But no matter, it's the differences and similarities between the two that are the issue, really. There are other Isington schools that seem to be stuck in the same catch22, notably IAMS and the former Islignton Green, but also EGA, which really should have been able to turn things around given its string of Outstanding ofsteds and the high-profile visits from Michele Obama. And yet m/c families are not taking the bait.

Iirc Highbury Grove did a very aggressive recruitment drive about 5 or 6 years ago around the local primary schools, specifically targetting middle-class families with the intention of convincing them that if they chose HG en bloc, the school would make sure their dc achieved their potential. And clearly it worked, both in terms of attracting their target intake and in terms of getting them the grades, despite the very indifferent overall results. And that is despite a shiny new academy (StMM) opening in the same catchment.

[forkhandles4candles]

this September for me. Yes, will be straight on the waiting list for sure. ABS is sounding good.

[inthemorning]

Hello Paper, not totally sure, you'd really need to talk to ask the girls themselves about their experience - there are always lots of female students at the ABS autumn open days. I've helped out at school events alongside students, and the girls are always great. There are so many girls-only options in the area that all the girls at AB have made a choice to be there, including some who've moved after starting at single-sex schools and say that they are happier at AB. I've heard from other parents that there's a lot of solidarity between the girls - there aren't so many of them, so they tend to treat each other well. It helps that the performing arts are strong - everybody does dance and drama for the first years with lots of extra clubs and opportunities to be part of shows, and the girls' groups really shine.

[Coffeeismycupoftea]

Obv I don't believe everything I read in the papers but I think it was Holloway
www.theguardian.com/politics/1999/may/13/uk.politicalnews2
(not correcting you, btw, just sharing as I think you share my interest in the nuances of North London schools!).

HG's results are a bit shocking given the enthusiasm and support they're receiving. As you say, v similar results to Holloway. And I do know kids at HG who are on track for a string of top grades and maybe that is what is lacking in Holloway. I think HG was just clever in deliberately targetting a committed group of local parents and the media (Latin, Lloyd Webber, Tatler etc). Aggressive streaming too. HG also blame the results of the last two years on the cohort, they were y7s when the building work was going on. I think they're banking on much better results coming up.

In theory Holloway could do the same. They've got Yerbury and TP primaries right by them.

[AgonyBeetle]

Coffee - I think the Corbyn school was actually Highbury Grove, which had a similar terrible, terrible reputation back in the 90s and early 00s. That too was originally an all-boys' school that went co-ed, but unlike HOlloway has managed to turn itself around - combination of inspirational head, fabby new building (although Holloway has new buildings also) and then the collaboration with Lloyd Webber and the music focus. It is definitely now seen as a desirable option, I know people who have chosen it over church schools and over Stokey etc.

BUT, if you look at the detail of the DFE performance data for HG, they are broadly similar to Holloway, both in terms of the demographics of the intake (70% ever-6 FSM), similar proportions of low/middle/high attainers, and in terms of results (40-ish% 5A-C inc Eng and Maths). And yet HG is considered acceptable by m/c parents, adn yet Holloway really isn't. It's a mystery. Having said that, it would be interesting to look at the spread of results within that broad statistic, since that crude statistic doesn't differentiate between dc getting 5 C grades and those getting 10 As. HG def has a high-achieving cohort at the top end, with significant numbers coming out with 8, 9, 10 A* grades, and AB does as well. Wd be interesting to see if that is true at Holloway, though my guess would be notsomuch.

[forkhandles4candles]

OK - so ABS is what I am hoping for in the allocation. or PGS - except like Paper0mover I really don't like single-sex and nor does my DD. We may be too far from both of them - unless last year's unpopularity of ABS continues. What do you all think - should I be preparing for the local pit of doom, which was the only inner London school to appear on the govt's recent list of shame (re GSCE results). Noone from DD's primary is going to go to any of these schools. They all fight for Marylebone, CSG, Grey Coats, or move out to Muswell Hill or go private.