Transition into IB Diploma .... advice, help!

[Hecho]

We've got a couple of years yet to plan, but we've just started exploring pre-University options for our oldest DD (should she decide she wants to go), and have some questions about possibly entering her into the IB qualification.

We live abroad and our DCs are all in the local state education system in the language of our country (not English). There is a local-ish private school offering the IB syllabus from Early Years through to Diploma. Whatever we are able to afford for our eldest, we need to be able to offer to all three DCs .... which is flipping expensive. Because of this we wouldn't be able to afford 2 years prior to the Diploma as well as the 2 years for the diploma itself; which would be ideal in order to transition into such a different educational system which is largely taught in English.

So, my question ..... if we transferred her for 1 year before the Diploma (MYP 5) in order for her to settle in to her new school and become used to the new approach (current system very much based on memorising rather than investigating/individual study), could this be a compromise worth doing? We realise her results at the end of this year probably won't be great; but hopefully she'd be geared up for the final 2 years, which I understand to be very demanding.

Thanks for any advice, perspective, comments, reality checks.

[halvedfees]

fatbottomgirlLatin is not considered an MFL, but it does fulfil the IB language
requirement. Actual MFLs, (French, Spanish, German etc) do not involve the study of literature at SL, only HL; this is obviously not the case for ancient languages.

There is such a wide choice of languages at SL and ab initio level that you shouldn't worry about your DD having to study one - there is bound to be one she would enjoy, and if she's considering Japanese at any level then she must be fairly adventurous and up for a challenge!

If she's canny and wants to maximise her overall IB score while taking the pressure off in order to concentrate on her HLs, your DD might be well advised to pick Spanish SL/ab initio.

[fatbottomgirl67]

DD is keen to stay where she is. She is so happy at school and has thrived there. I have reservations and we will go and see the A level equivalent school to see what they can offer her. I do worry about her having to do a language. She does Latin at the moment as her Mfl (always makes me smile that it's considered a Mfl) but really doesn't want to go further with it due to the literature which she finds dull but has shown an interest in ab initio Japanese ( not sure how useful that will be) so many things to consider but her happiness is the biggest consideration so it will be her choice

[Dunlurking]

Maybe not then. Mine started offering the IB late 70s but switched to all IB in the 90s I think, possibly later.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Dunlurking - I don't know. I don't think DD1's school has ever done A levels.

[Dunlurking]

Mrs S I bet I was at your DD1's school. I was in their 2nd year of offering the IB. Only 2 of us did it. I was the first to go onto Medicine, I think.

[Dunlurking]

Not sure my IB MFL experiences are relevant now but I did French Standard level in one year having been in an accelerated "French A level in one year" class and with As in French O level and French A/O level under my belt. I got a 5 while the A level exam candidates got As.

I did medicine, for which the IB skills gave minimal help, but I still appreciate having had that broader 6th form education. The Standard level English exposed me to many international authors as well as English ones and the IB forced me to write and be critical in a way that Medicine never has.

As it was unusual back then I contacted every medical school I was interested in to check what they wanted and applied with my grades in hand and had a year off (well did 7th term Oxbridge, as they called it then). Some medical schools were completely uninterested. 2 were very supportive. Personally I think it varies with individual admissions officers and their experiences/Knowledge of the IB. You can't work that out without communicating with them directly before completing the UCAS form, unless the school have sufficient experience with medicine applications with the IB.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Fatbottomgirl - my DD is in a school that has done IB since, I think, the 1970s. They regularly get a good number into Oxbridge, RG and Ivy League to do medicine, sciences etc.

[halvedfees]

No - well-known private. All the offers were 39 for Oxford with either 666 or 766, 42 for Cambridge.

Strange....

[BeaufortBelle]

Is your DS at a state school? 42 was the norm for DS's. Minimum requirements on websites do not necessarily translate across to the actual offer, particularly for courses that are popular.

[halvedfees]

or 766 for PPE or E&M but still 39

www.ppe.ox.ac.uk/index.php/applying-for-ppe

[halvedfees]

Beaufort no-one at my DS's school has ever been offered higher than 39 for Oxford - 42 for Cambridge, yes but not Oxford. And that includes E&M and PPE. Also Oxford states 39 with 666 is their standard offer for IB.

[BeaufortBelle]

halvedfees how do you know what your DS would have been offered? Either you get an offer or you don't. Lots and lots of DS's friends were offered 42 from Oxford. I can't think of any who were offered less than that!

[viewwater]

Maths HL is considered a mix of Maths and FM - it certainly isn't easy and is more than enough for engineering at places like Imperial/Cambridge.
Getting in it is enough but for the actual courses that bit harder for the student to start with.

[halvedfees]

What subject was that at Oxford? - my DS would have been offered 39 for PPE - I know Cambridge offers 42 for IB regularly, but I thought Oxford's max was 39.

[ripeningapples]

DS did IB. He got 44 points. It was gruelling. He is in his second year of uni now and says that it was fantastic preparation and helped him work independently and maturely. He doesn't think he will ever do anything as gruelling ever again but that he is glad he did it.

His offers BTW were: Warwick 34, Bristol 36, Nottingham 34, KCL 36, Oxford 42. Durham turned him down!

DD is doing A'Levels. She will probably get offers from similar universities. She would not cope with the rigour of IB - neither would she cope with very high performing and very competitive school DS attended.

[halvedfees]

Maths HL is considered a mix of Maths and FM - it certainly isn't easy and is more than enough for engineering at places like Imperial/Cambridge. Don't forget that Maths/FM combination is really regarded as one A level with an extension, so if taking FM you need to do 4 A levels, which is around the level of work needed to do the IB.

The other thing to mention is that if your state school has chosen to do IB then it has done so for carefully thought out reasons - it would have taken an awful lot of effort for them to implement it. Also doing the IB looks much more interesting on the CV, in my opinion!

[viewwater]

fatbottomgirl have a look at the subjects and destinations of the leavers from the school. If they get a normal proportion of pupils studying those subjects and at places like Imperial then fine. However Maths and Further Maths A levels are considered to make physics and engineering university degrees easier. Also as halvedfees said a scientist can keep their options open by doing one humanity or MFL for A level but if they do IB they end up having 2 essay subjects as well as the MFL, theory of knowledge and an essay. Inevitably that means less time for depth in their main subjects. For the right person however the mix could be more fun for their sixth form years.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Don't be daft, MMM, I didn't send DD1 to France to do a week's course. The Institut Francais is in London. And I didn't say the others on her course were a particularly dim bunch, I said they may have been. And I didn't say that DD1 was superior - just that her French was at a much higher level than the others on the course - grammar and vocab. She was put into this group by the Institut, as her standard of French was above that of the AS level group, which is where they were going to put her.

And what halvedfees says - you are jumping to conclusions without reading what has been written. Doesn't make you inferior, of course it doesn't, but it does make you come across as chippy, - as I and others have said, and a bit unhinged to be frank!

I have no beef about A levels v IB - DD2 will probably end up doing A levels. DD1 is in an international school, and the IB is all that is offered there.

[halvedfees]

No mmm that is NOT what I am saying. You do not read things carefully enough.

What I was doing was defining chippy for you as per Oxford Dictionary - you did say you didn't understand the word. If you look carefully at the definition it says that chippy people have "a sense of inferiority". That is completely different from saying you are inferior.

You are definitely not inferior - no-one is. You are someone who jumps to conclusions without carefully reading what has actually been written though

[Millymollymama]

So, by definition, you are saying I am inferior, halvedfees? Thanks very much. My previous comment about your rudeness stands.

[halvedfees]

fatbottomgirl67 thanks for backing up what I said about the transition to uni - mmm won't like it though

I hear what you're saying about your dd and physics/engineering. And yes, A levels may be better for her. But do take into account that you can do physics and maths hl along with, say, history or philosophy hl which would leave her more "wiggle room" if she were to change her mind. Physics and philosophy go very well together. Also doing a foreign language, even ab initio, is useful. Certainly English only really starts getting interesting at 6th form - my DS loved English SL and it is good for a scientist to show that they are literate.

Couple all that with moving school as well. Personally, I would do the IB. But I am biased

[fatbottomgirl67]

This is interesting my DD goes to a state school that only does Ib. Just had a meeting re choices for next year. They ,obviously, are very keen on the IB and invite admission officers in to chat to parents . The imperial college admissions man was very keen on IB and went on to say they often give lower offers to IB students as they beleive it is a lot harder. They like the fact that that a lot of independent study is expected and said IB students cope with the transition to uni better. It was an interesting evening as we were thinking of moving DD to another school to do A levels. She is very strong in sciences and maths and wants to study physics/ engineering in the future so we felt A levels might be a better choice but no we are unsure. Certainly a good qualification though still unsure if it's best for our daughter

[halvedfees]

I agree - it's not a no-brainer - sorry just put that there to wind up mmm . My main issue with the IB that certain UK universities do not fully understand the IB and therefore give ridiculously high offers in comparison to their A level offers.

However, you can do 2 languages - just not with 2 sciences, but with a science and maths. I like the IB because it forces pupils to remain broad and therefore more agile in terms of Uni course choice. For example one of my DS's best friends thought he wanted to do Enginerring at uni and so in 5th form picked double science double maths. However he completely changed his mind a year later and wanted to do philosophy. This meant he had to drop one of his sciences and take up History - both AS. With the IB he would have been covered because he had to do a humanity subject.

But both systems are good - I just feel that A levels - if picked badly and not enough (ie 3) - can leave you dangerously narrow. I know it did for me.


PS mmm from oxford dictionaries online

adjective: chippy

(of a person) touchy and defensive, especially on account of having a grievance or a sense of inferiority.
"I thought she was hostile and chippy"

[viewwater]

if you are broadly able, it's a no-brainer
I don't think this is necessarily true. For example the A levels give more potential flexibility in subject choice. A bright pupil could do 2 languages, 2 sciences and maths with A/ AS levels or 2 languages and 2 art subjects etc but this is not possible with IB.
.
Pupils may also prefer to have more flexibility in how they fill their extracurricular time.

My impression is that the organisation and work load for IB is no more than an A level pupil doing 4 - 5 subjects with an EPQ, and a busy extracurricular life.

There is also the risk that since IB students are used to having their time filled for them by the programme, they may actually end up doing do less free reading around their subjects except of course when they have to for their essay.