Economics A level- your thoughts?

[Tansie]

DS has to choose his 6th form this coming term.

His original, maybe parroted but not thought-through plan was to 'do science' and maths A levels. He's said he was interested in engineering but the reality is, his triple science isn't going brilliantly, although his maths is fine (should get an A using last year's goalposts). And really, imho, he's not an engineering-y type; no 'taking things apart' style hobbies and so forth.

He was thinking 'Maths/Physics/Chem/Geog' at A level (and dropping one)

Out of the blue a couple of weeks ago, he asked me about accountancy! Now, I don't think for a second he really wants to be an accountant as he probably doesn't know much about it but I am beginning to feel his future might lie in an office, iyswim.

So, he's now wondering about Maths/Geog/Economics/? Computer Science or another science (Phys or Chem). Maybe.

But I know nothing about Economics as an A level, except you need maths to be able to do it.

Is it considered 'soft'? Is it very difficult? Is is a facilitating subject?

Anyone's thoughts very welcome!

[Tansie]

Thanks for the additional input, especially regarding Engineering and Accountancy. This is all uncharted territory for me so it's all really good information!

[addictedtosugar]

Very late to this, but not all engineers are the "take it apart" type. Indeed I have (as a chemist) to plumb in the washing machine of a Cambridge Engineer who has had a very successful career. They do the calculations side of it, rather than the factory based fix it and trouble shoot it.

There were quite a few people from the science degree courses who then went into Accountancy. I'm less aware of engineers going into accountancy, but it is done. I guess what I'm trying to say is a science and engineering path now is not closing the door on accountancy.

[Stickerrocks]

I forgot to say, you certainly don't need an accountancy degree to become an accountant. We spend most of the few months having to re-teach accountancy graduates so they can cope with the real world. A good solid degree in maths, geography, economics, business studies etc is just as useful.

[Stickerrocks]

I'm a lecturer for the main accountancy qualifications at post grad level and I recruited graduate trainees for the two major accountancy firms I worked for. I took maths, physics & economics for my own A levels. You should choose economics if you are interested in the business world. The most important thing is to get good A level results in a solid bunch of subjects, as these are seen as being a good indicator of success in the professional exams.

[Needmoresleep]

That what I meant. They offer against three, not further maths but are expecting most candidates to have the Further as well. So the offer is A*AAE.

The exceptions will be those from schools who don't offer further. And with all the highly competitive courses you need predictions which are some way above unless there are extenuating circumstances, eg coming from a poorly performing school.

[MillyMollyMama]

Actually it says "strongly preferred" but we all know what that really means!

[MillyMollyMama]

I think LSE do require Further Maths, last time I looked, anyway! It is a great help to have it for an Economics degree but not essential for most universities. Years ago my sister did Geography and Economics at UCL without a Maths A level. How times change!

[Needmoresleep]

exexpat, Cambridge is probably the most mathsy of all the economics degrees, indeed one college admissons tutor at their Open Day last year described it as more "maths with economics". Sucessful candidates DS knows have been exceptionally strong mathematicians, probably good enough to win places to read maths instead.

Warwick, LSE and UCL are also very maths heavy and though none demand further maths, it would be unusual not to take it if the school offers it. Advice my son received was to do as much as he could at school as he would need to learn it at some point and it is easier to do in a classroom setting.

Some other Universities have been upping their maths requirements and maths content. It is possible to find a course which is less mathematical, and focusses more on economic policy and history. A level choices are important. If you are comfortable with maths, do the double. If you are not, do the single if you can get a good grade, and select your degree carefully.

Double maths, economics and history sound like the perfect combination. There is some anecdotal evidence that the most competitive courses are now giving more weight to candidates who offer an essay subject as well. Note LSE effectively requires 4 A levels as they wont offer against the Further, whilst Warwick normally requires 4 AS levels. AS results are very important. Cambridge put a lot of weight on them, and LSE, Warwick and UCL dont interview and are hugely oversubscribed so unless there are contextural factos are likely to expect might higher grades/predictions than their published minimum.

[exexpat]

I was looking at the Cambridge economics course earlier, and found this interesting: Cambridge Economics open day presentation.

On entry requirements, they say maths A-level is required, further maths is 'very useful', and A-level economics is 'desirable'. Also 'proficiency in both model- and essay-based subjects desirable (e.g. physics and History)'. Sounds like DS's choice of A-levels is good if that's what he wants to go for (maths, further maths, economics & history).

[weatherall]

I did Scottish standard grade and higher economics and studied it as one of my 3 first year subjects at a Scottish Uni.

I loved it- was my favourite subject and has been very useful in adult life.

Tbh I think all pupils should be taught some economics at school.

[Needmoresleep]

Some late comments.

1. There is value, as an adult, in understanding basic economics terms and concepts. I once worked somewhere with a lot of Oxbridge grads, many very clever but often with Classics or Theology type degrees. Several struggled to understand economics concepts of the sort found in the business pages of a daily newspaper. They may have been more educated, but without basic economics you are at a disadvantage professionally. Therefore for bright candidates, economics can sit well alongside other facilitating A levels as a fourth A level.
   

1. Dont do both Business Studies and Economics. Many good Universities wont accept two. Unless the Business Studies teaching is superb, go for the latter.
   

1. A level economics is not really like degree economics, and you dont need it to get on an economics course, though if you have time it is probably worth taking in to ensure it is a subject you are interested in. To give yourself the most choice of degree, do as much maths as you can in sixth form. If you dont have an aptitude for maths you should look at the more politics/philosophy type economics degrees. More than one student has found that a very mathsy economics degree becomes a hard (and boring) slog.

[Tansie]

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to the OP! I am much the wiser!

[ChocolateWombat]

As with any subject, I would look carefully at the schools record in terms of achievement at A Level.
Many schools offer both Econ and Bus Studies and the same teachers may cover both. As long as they teach well, attract good numbers and get results, I should think it is fine. Look at the past 5 years to see if decent numbers choose Econ, in relation to other subjects and if they achieve a high number of the upper grades.
This is something to look at regardless of what subject choice you are considering. You can also look/ask how many continue it to degree level if you want to.

[ChocolateWombat]

Several key things about Economics, including issues to do with combinations and university choices/careers;

• Economics is seen as an academically rigorous subject
  
• It is not a facilitating subject. Not being a facilitating subject does not mean the subject is not well regarded and academically rigorous. So, it is important to understand what being a facilitating subject means. It simply means that there are degree courses which are not open to you unless you have that particular subject. So, Maths is a facilitating subject because you cannot do Maths degree, engineering degree and various others without it. Economics is not a facilitating subject, because it is perfectly possible to do an Economics degree without an Economics A Level.
  

The advice is to make sure you have at least 2 facilitating subjects. However, there is no stigma attached to not having more than 2, as long as the other 2 are academically rigorous. Economics certainly meets this criteria.

• it is perfectly possible to pick Economics up at degree level without A Level Economics. In fact, Maths would be more essential. Anyone wanting to take Economics degree will be very limited in where they can apply without Maths, and will then struggle. It will not be a problem to not have Economics.
  
• People often choose Economics A level as part of a package of Humanities subjects...perhaps with History, English, Politics, Geography etc. With such subjects, all humanities/arts degrees would be open.
  

Alternatively people choose it when aiming to do a Maths based or science based degree as their 3rd or 4th subject. Being a social science it fits well between arts and science courses and can provide variety.
It could be taken by those with specific vocational courses such as medicine, because candidates could still meet the course requirements, of chemistry etc. it is likely to be a 4th option here.

• Are there any possible negatives? The only minor one I can see of any non facilitating subject, is that when you drop down from AS to A2, in terms of numbers of subjects taken, you want to be sure you still have 2 facilitating subjects.....if you only had 2 at AS, you may feel that you have to keep going with those 2 to A2, even if they are not your strongest or best. This might mean you are more likely to drop Economics after AS. This is not relevant for someone who has 3 facilitating subjects at AS.
  

• So, I would say it is absolutely fine to do Economics. It is a good academic and well regarded subject. No university or course is going to view it as second rate. It is not required for any course, so not essential, but few courses have specific subject requirements and these can still be met with economics in the mix.

[ancientbuchanan]

Yes.

[Bonsoir]

Is it actually possible to train as a teacher of Economics ie do a PGCE after an Economics degree?

[tobysmum77]

I think the thing to be careful with in relation to economics is who us teaching it. Very often it is taught by business studies teachers who don't really get it.
I have taught it and actually think it isnt hard to do well in as long as your students have good grounding of the theory. However, many don't and in which case it is very hard to do well in. I would be trying to find out if the teacher is actually an economist.

[ShanghaiDiva]

Agree with bonsoir. My dh has a levels in chemistry, biology and maths and went on to study business economics and accounting. He struggled in the first year as he was one of the few on his course without add maths. Not having studied economics before wasn't an issue.
This was nearly 30 years ago(!), but from reading the replies here I think I would choose add maths over economics.

[Bonsoir]

My DSS1 is just about to start the second year of an Economics degree at Bristol university. He didn't do A-levels - he is French and did the French bac S with maths speciality, which is pretty much the same level as A-level Maths and Further Maths. He had also done quite a bit of physics his bac. He had never done Economics before, hates essay writing and spoke only passable English. His opinion, having aced his first year exams, is that the students with A-level Economics but without Further Mathematics A-level were at a significant disadvantage when starting the course.

[dapoxen]

senua That link also says "typically about one third of our students will not have taken it [Further Maths] as an A Level".

There's a huge difference between the statement that Further Maths is required for all Engineering degrees and Cambridge recommending that their applicants take it, if they have the option!

[senua]

Further maths is undoubtedly helpful for engineering, but it is not required

I think that this is an 'outreach' problem. Not all schools do FM so Oxbridge are running scared that asking for it will be seen as discriminatory. However, if a pupil's school does offer FM but the pupil decides not to do it then they have to have a very good reason. Indeed the Camb link says "If your school does offer Further Maths you should seriously consider taking it. Opting not to take Further Maths when it is available at your school may well disadvantage your application."

[ancientbuchanan]

Exex, economics with business, ppe, something like that. Not a pure mathematical economics course. So looking at lse etc. How interesting.

But who knows what Thursday will bring. Depends if gcse marking all over the place, as well as his effort ( not as much as I might have liked).

[StandsOnGoldenSands]

The main thing to bear in mind about Econ at A Level is that it's a big step change when you get into the degree, if you don't have maths.

So if he doesn't do maths at A Level then by all means enjoy Econ but he will struggle at degree level if he wants to take it further.

Oh and btw has he considered Earth and Planetary Sciences or similar (geology, etc) as a degree? Sounds as though he has exactly the right interests (geog, chemistry, physics, maths).

[dapoxen]

senua and MillyMollyMama: Further maths is undoubtedly helpful for engineering, but it is not required (university.which.co.uk/advice/what-a-levels-do-you-need-to-become-an-engineer). Not even at Oxford
(www.eng.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate/applying-for-admission/entry-requirements) or Cambridge (www3.eng.cam.ac.uk/admissions/information/faqs.html).

[hatsybatsy]

As an accountant, the only A level that the Big Companies (down to 4 now I think?) are after is Maths - preferably with a top grade. Economics A Level would not be critical in securing a job although it would give a head start with some of the professional exams.

My advice? Do the A levels that interest you. Ditto university. Just get good grades.