How do you justify seding your child to boarding school?

[sunshine75]

I've read some pretty horrific things lately about boarding schools and the damage they can cause. See this article from the Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/20/damage-boarding-school-sexual-abuse-children

However, I have no personal experience of one and have no close friends who went to one. Therefore, I don't want to be hasty in forming a negative opinion about them.

So, if you chose to send your child to a boarding school then I'm curious as to why you chose to? For example, why did you chose boarding over a really good day school? Is there anyone who chose a boarding school for a much younger child and was this a really hard thing to do?

[Lynda07]

Oh blimey, the thread will soon be having its sixth birthday! Never mind, the comments may be useful to some posters.

[Lynda07]

That article is about historic sexual abuse in boarding schools. Sexual abuse was rife in all institutions and many other settings, I can remember it when I was a child and teenager. Whatever the environment there will always be abuse of the vulnerable, however kids are now clued up, they are listened to and believed and schools are far better at vetting staff than ever before. So much used to go on without a lot of people knowing about it and, shamefully, children could not confide in their parents. Looking back, I don't think I'd have been able to tell my parents had I been abused.

The ones who are always in danger are those who cannot speak up for themselves, ie handicapped in some way (not only children). Then there are those institutionalised for wayward behaviour, nobody cares about them and who would believe them if they complained?

[Faizaali]

Hi everyone 😊

[Kelwar]

Sorry to reply so many years later, but your 7 year olds begged to go to boarding school? It’s the sort of thing my mother tells people to justify sending my brother and I at 6 and 8.. no young child would beg to leave their family to be cared for by others.. and I’ll be interested to see how your situation with your children pans out in the future as neither my brother or I speak to our mother for sending us away so young. No judgement just fact from a child’s perspective

[relaxitllbeok]

Welcome to mumsnet, july42. This is what's known as a ZOMBIE THREAD.

[july42]

The school brochures and recommendations of those privileged to decide on whether they should send their darling child to boarding school in a nearby county lord it up. Let's not make any mistake, private school education affords many advantages these days.
Go back in time to strict prep schools in the 70's and early 80's and speak to the 'grown up' adults now. Many pupils went there because their parents worked abroad, put in an English boarding school at age 7 and then went back to their 'lives' overseas.
Whether it was out of 'necessity' due to parents choosing their work over their children's real care or a home counties parent pontificating over the pros and cons of sending a little darling to boarding school and then gee them on at weekend sports, there is a payback, The payback can be unpleasant. After all you are abandoning a young child into the care of strangers, think orphanages.
How can any reasonable parent think it is desirable to miss out on their child's upbringing is beyond belief. Many parents have been to boarding schools themselves and in their emotionally stripped belief think their children will benefit from the same emotionally stripped upbringing.

[cungryhatterpillar]

Gauss - I agree. All that you know from someone with a distinction in part III is "this person really wanted to get a distinction in part III".

Does anyone actually find part III easy? I have a distinction myself and I'd cheerfully describe it as a hellish. Although I have heard that the stats and applied courses aren't as hard as pure, but perhaps the applied mathematicians say that about the pure courses too.

[summerends]

IME there is a difference between a very able mathematician ie those that instinctively pick up concepts and solve problems using a variety of methods to those at the next level (PhD and beyond) who can do novel original work without a lot of guidance. Similarly in the sciences.

[gauss]

But even part III is not enough to identify super able mathematicians: often those who found part III easy go on to PhDs don't do as well as expected or far surpass what was expected. Ditto those hired at postdoc and faculty level.

I agree about students quickly levelling out, although ime there is only a completely level playing field from the second year onwards.

[cungryhatterpillar]

It's interesting to read about the children who have been certified as maths geniuses and need a specialist education as a result.

Being a mathematician myself, I noticed that after a term at Oxford it was pretty much a level playing field betters kids who'd gone to public schools and those from the state sector who hadn't even done further maths a level.

And again at Cambridge, doing part III of the mathematical tripos (a one year taught masters that acts as a selection test for students want to do a PhD at Cambridge) there was no difference between the UK-based students in terms of those with an elite education and those without.

Part III is gruelling and hardcore (probably the maths equivalent of marine commando training if you're trying to get a distinction so that you can do a Cambridge phd.) It's at this point you can really identity the super able mathematicians, not generally via an ed psych talking to a teenager.

Despite my scepticism that able mathematicians need to be sent away to board I do agree with others that boarding schools offer good education and it's up to the parents and child - no one should have to justify it.

[smokepole]

Teacher. The report showed that many of 77 children's backgrounds were either Technical Middle class/ or affluent workers. These are the types of families who are likely to have benefited from 'right to buy' and increased property values . These families are also likely to be now mostly in the 'established middle class/ Elite categories'. Many of these families have experienced great social mobility, education being one of the reasons allowing their families social mobility.

The report advocates what they call 'open access' ,this scheme was used very successfully by the Belvedere School in Liverpool between 2000-2007. The system worked by using a sliding scale of fees based on the families income. Nobody who passed the Entrance Exam was denied a place. The report also states that up to 50 Independent Schools, would work with an open access scheme ( one suspects these are the old Direct Grant schools).

DD1 would 'possibly' have benefited from either 'open access or an assisted place' after some how failing her 11+ and the sudden drop in my income meant I was unable to rectify her potential school. Instead I was forced to send her to her 'father' 25 miles away because of the only palatable 'Modern school' available.

[mollyb101]

I went to an independent prep school until I was 11 and would on occasion board. I used to love it and really enjoyed the fact that I had friends to play with (I am an only child) it gave me structure (set homework time each night) and I didnt really miss my family while I was away.

I developed into an 11 year who was confident, had friends, was good at sports and proud to be reasonably intelligent as it was the norm for us all to want to be top of the class.

I then went to a local comprehensive and lost the structure, got teased for being "a Boffin" and didnt take part in most sports clubs as I wasnt confident in the environment.

I was going to go back to the school for GCSEs and feel I would have been far more successful had I done so, however at the age of 14 you understand more about money and felt I would be a burden to the family finances.

Obviously it isnt for everyone and if there is a good school locally which your children can go to then great but from my experience its very difficult to see a comprehensive school properly. Independent schools tend to give you far more information and insight into the school life than a comprehensive schools open evening where you see the good students who volunteer their time rather than the average class.

Child abuse can happen anywhere and I dont think its fair to tarnish Boarding schools across the country.

[gauss]

Most of the children on assisted places at my school were neither from very deprived areas and backgrounds, nor from highly educated families with low income. Many came from families with no history of sixth form or university education but their parents had steady jobs, reasonable steady income, technical or vocational qualifications.

Most of the children on assisted places in my year have gone on to be very successful: solicitors, doctors etc. I think all of them got places at top universities.

I agree that the assisted places did not target those from socially deprived backgrounds. My father also used to complain that self-employed parents could fiddle their incomes to make themselves eligible.

However, assisted places, bursaries and scholarships were very good for meeting the needs of highly intelligent children, of the type happygardening is describing. My family had no history of university education but would not have been called deprived - they earned above the threshold for assisted places since my mother worked. Both I and my brother went to well-known private schools on large/full scholarships and then went to Oxbridge, became academics. We could not have followed the paths we did (given the then failing local schools in our rural area) without these scholarships.

Yet such scholarships no longer exist at most private schools (most are token accounts) and even bursaries are very limited. A child who (like my brother and me) is years ahead, multiply grade skipped, very high intelligence, does not fit in well in most non-selective state schools but in most areas selective state schools don't exist and most families won't qualify for substantial bursaries at selective private schools. (Indeed you can have a good income of 100k+ and yet struggle to pay day school fees for 2 children given the high cost of living in the SE.)

[teacherwith2kids]

Can I be really lazy, and ask smokepole (because you have read the report) the backgrounds of the people who benefitted. Were they 'the intended recipients' - ie high ability children from genuinely deprived areas / backgrounds, from families with a history of low educational attainment? Or were they from families with low income at that point, but without the other markers of deprivation?

[As I was growing up, my grammar-and-Oxbridge educated parents were poor as church mice - materially much less well off than many living in our local council estates. However, bright children from those estates would have been much better recipients of Direct Grant places, because they didn't have the family background that would have supported them educationally.]

[smokepole]

Thanks Dapplegrey you have just answered my question. I am glad pupils who were on the assisted places scheme did not have their places scrapped immediately by the Labour Government in 1997.

I have just read the report , it makes interesting reading and as stated by me the 77 people reported on have largely been very successful .

[Dapplegrey]

Hakluyt - sorry, I meant to ask in my last post, why does it feel like such a bad idea to you?

[Dapplegrey]

Hakluyt - I can describe one such outcome: my stepson went to a public school in SW England on an assisted place (he was in the last year of them), got a first in maths at a leading university, then did a phd, and he is now a well adjusted academic who loves his work.

[smokepole]

Were the children who got assisted places in 95/96 allowed to continue with them until their A levels.

[smokepole]

Where the children who got assisted places in 1995/96 allowed to continue to A levels at their 'private school'.

Hakluyt. I think the Sutton Trust published some statistics about children who had assisted places in the 1980s. The results showed that many of these pupils had gone to 'prestigious ' universities and into valued professions, It showed their salaries were mostly in the top 5% of the population.

[goinggetstough]

Hak you only have to google outcomes assisted places....
www.suttontrust.com/news/publications/lasting-benefits-the-long-term-legacy-of-the-assisted-places/assistedplacesreport0310.pdf

[Hakluyt]

I would be very interested to see the outcomes of the kids who took up assisted places. It just feels like such a bad idea to me........

[merlehaggard]

My daughter's uni friend had a sister who went to boarding school and she chose a different day school cos she didn't want to board. She ended up boarding (even though the school they chose was close (Stowe) because she found that she was missing out by going home every night. On that basis, it can't be that bad!

[smokepole]

So I meant ABB not AAB.

[teacherwith2kids]

Equally, I am not sure that the assisted places scheme actually reached thiose in most need of it - perhaps those like my parents (church mice poor but well educated and basically MC) rather than those who were genuinely from socially difficult backgrounds. I also wonder whether those helped in that way benefitted, or felt 'displaced' by a process that fundamentally separated them from their community asd well as from their family?

[smokepole]

I Know. It was almost the first thing Blair 'Education Education Education' did .
Totally disgraceful and anti 'equality ' I thought the Labour party stood for giving equal opportunities to people from socially deprived areas.