Faith schools to be allowed to redact exam papers.

[creamteas]

It has been reported that some faith schools have been redacting exam papers, taking out questions that their faith objects too.

To be honest, I am not surprised by this, and will happily add this information to my list of why all religious schools should be banned

But I am horrified by the fact that this story seems to be suggesting that OCR are trying to find a way to accommodate this . How on earth can this be justified?

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Given that the packets of exam papers are not opened until the exam is about to begin, how are they going to do this?

[reddidi]

They should be able to answer it by either saying ''Some scientists/people believe..''

No that is not correct. NO scientist* believes that the Sun, Earth, life and human beings were created by separate acts of an intelligent being and it is wrong (and from September 2014 will be illegal in a state school) to teach otherwise.

.

• Science is the study of the world around us based on evidence and testable theories; these beliefs are incompatible with the evidence and untestable and so are not science.

[steppemum]

reddidi -
you misread my point I think

If the child writing the exam is creationist and needs to answer a question on evolution, then they can write the answer

Some scientists (or most scientists) believe in evolution for these reasons....

This means they have learnt and understood the theory without agreeing with it themselves, which, in a free world, is their prerogative.

They should be able to present the evidence from someone else's point of view, ie from the point of view of the evolutionist.

And there are scientists out there who hold a creationist viewpoint. I don't happen to agree with them, but they are there, and you can't say they are not real scientists, just because they hold a different view to you. There are also many scientist who believe in God, but have no problem with evolution.

[meditrina]

You could put in that context in an RE or philosoph paper. That however does not mak th approach appropriate in a science one, where you woul be asked to explain the scientific principles. The linked article says they altered/removed 52 questions from science papers.

Now, as evolution, though important, isn't going to represent 52 questions worth of the papers. So I surmise that the editing went into other areas too.

[Blu]

"Well, if a school decides to omit part of the curriculum (and then blank out questions from the paper) that is up to them "

Really? In a state funded school, educating British citizens using taxpayers money? What when other state services take the same liberty and your closest NHS hospital declines blood transfusions or transplants because they do not believe in them from a religious standpoint?

It is outrageous that this is allowed. But a natural consequnce of the Academies and then Free school movement.

[steppemum]

meditrina - but they should be able to explain, in a science paper the principles of eveolution, in scientific terms, even if they disagree with them.

I can answer a paper about creationism, explaining the ins and outs, because I have studied it. I don't happen to believe it. It is the fundamental of a good education, that you understand the principles in all viewpoints so that you can make and informed decision about your stance.

another example would be climate change, I could answer a paper giving the evidence for or against as asked, it doesn't actually matter which side I believe in, as long as my answers are justified by evidence given.

[meditrina]

Even within the NHS, the postcode lottery means that there are services which vary between regions (and this has always been the case) and there is a legal opt out on contraception and abortion services which can be exercised on religious grounds. So the NHS comparison is an apt one, as yes it happens there and has done so for nearly 50 years).

The DofEd line quoted in article linked to OP suggests however that the a government is not minded to permit religious opt outs from the school curriculum. (Not seen anything to suggest they're going to end the religious opt-out in NHS though, nor in other party manifestos in recent years).

[TalkinPeace]

meditrina
and there is a legal opt out on contraception and abortion services which can be exercised on religious grounds
name me the UK hospital or GP surgery that has opted out of those services?

Speaking as an Atheist, I think its really important to understand religions
but they are belief systems for which there is no evidence

Science is about facts and observation

The community in question is sexist, trying to stop its women being educated as then they might realise what a shitty deal they get.
That this is allowed in the UK with MY taxes is an outrage.

[meditrina]

I can't name any individuals, and of course the local health authority must ensure that all services are appropriately available within the region.

Doctors have always been able to opt out of providing contraception services, and since the revisions to the GP contract (in late 90s/early 00s?) according to BMA web site, the total opt outs also now include cervical screening, childhood vaccinations and immunisations, child health surveillance and maternity services. I hadn't actually realised there were so many.

I don't actually think Blu's NHS comparison is terribly relevant, though it does illustrate (like the whole treatment postcode lottery) that there is less uniformity in publicly funded services than people sometimes think.

[reddidi]

If the child writing the exam is creationist and needs to answer a question on evolution, then they can write the answer

Some scientists (or most scientists) believe in evolution for these reasons....
This answer would be wrong and would get no marks. Science is not about belief, it is about observation. Would you expect to get marks in a history exam for writing "Some historians (or most historians) believe that Nazi Germany was responsible for the extermination of millions of Jews."?

And there are scientists out there who hold a creationist viewpoint. I don't happen to agree with them, but they are there, and you can't say they are not real scientists, just because they hold a different view to you.
No, I say they are not real scientists because they do not use the scientific method. In exactly the same way as there are revisionist historians who are not real historians.

There are also many scientist who believe in God, but have no problem with evolution.
Of course there are, but there aren't ANY scientists who deny evolution, whether they believe in a god or not. As mentioned in this thread, the Roman Catholic church and the Church of England both acknowledge evolution.

[Blu]

Meditrina - don't be so patronising - of course we know there is not uniformity - and you are comparing the provision for individuals to act on conscience against that of a complete institution.

Anyway, we could go on all day about this. Let's no de-rail.

Fundementally I do not think state funded institutions - schools - should be allowed to simply wipe out a whole area of important science from the curriculum, or interfere with the public exam boards in this way because of their religious beliefs.

I don't see that a school can be equipping pupils to enter the modern world if a they cannot learn about any of the developments and discoveries in physics, for example, that explore the Big Bang. Are they not alowed to nkow about CERN, or many aspects of particle physics?

Huge areas of education and employment will be denied them. What these schools are delivering simply cannot be considered 'education' in the C21st. And therefore should not be funded.

[creamteas]

Unless we outlaw all private/home schooling then clearly there will always be the possibility that some parents will use these routes to exclude areas of education whether this is on religious or other ideological grounds.

But more fundamental to me is that if exam boards allow redaction, then this limitation is no longer visible. When GCSE biology or physics A level is on a CV or UCAS, there will be no way of knowing whether or not the whole curriculum has been covered.

If redaction is banned, it may mean that some parents/schools take the whole subject off the curriculum. This will be a shame for these pupils, but the integrity of the exam system for everyone else will be maintained.

[Blu]

"When GCSE biology or physics A level is on a CV or UCAS, there will be no way of knowing whether or not the whole curriculum has been covered."

I am amazed that the Boards would allow this, and that the Universities are not protesting. Perhaps they don't know?

[meditrina]

My apologies that it read as patronising. That was not my intent.

[Blu]

Sorry for being tetchy - the whole subject makes me tetchy!

There's such a need for tolerance of religious beliefs, I am the first to uphold tolerance and respect for people's right to hold different beliefs...and a point where upholding religious beliefs picks at the fault lines of democracy. And I think banning aspects of the public examination syste in a state funded school picks at that line.

[Whathaveiforgottentoday]

I totally and absolutely agree with the tolerance of religious beliefs and as an atheist working in a faith school, this is my daily existence.

It is perfectly fine to teach evolution and not expect the students to 'believe it' if it disagrees with their faith and steppemum's approach is spot on and has works for many students.

I could answer quite happily answer question on intelligent design/creationism despite the fact that I think its complete dribble and lacks any emperical evidence. (of course in the classroom I would never say its complete dribble for fear of offence - but on here I'm not being paid to keep my own opinions to myself).

I'm more annoyed with the exam board for actually allowing this and I think its a very dangerous road to be going down.

[creamteas]

I am amazed that the Boards would allow this, and that the Universities are not protesting. Perhaps they don't know?

Well as an university admission tutor, the first I knew was the BBC story we are discussing. We are currently thinking through the implications of this more widely as an institution.

[RunAwayHome]

When do teachers normally open the exam papers? Not normally before the exam is to be sat, I would have thought? The fact that someone is reading the questions and redacting them all (which must take some time!) suggests that they've had a look at them well in advance. I suppose they might prove that precautions had been taken to eliminate any chance of them communicating the questions to pupils or other schools etc, but it seems fairly dodgy to be doing that sort of thing unofficially! (Totally besides all the genuine arguments about whether it's right or not in and of itself).

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

I have invigilated GCSEs and A levels, and the packets of papers are opened in the exam room, and, iirc, are put on the desk before the candidates come in.

I have been thinking about this since I first posted, and I suppose you could quickly look through the paper and redact certain questions, if you didn't have a lot of candidates, but it seems utterly wrong, to me.

Even if your pupils can do all the other questions, you are harming their chances of gaining the best marks they can - as a parent, that would appal me, but if you choose to send your child to a school that does this, I suppose you are tacitly agreeing to this - and putting your beliefs above your child's education.

[Whathaveiforgottentoday]

I hadn't even thought of it from the angle that they are clearly opening the papers early.

[TalkinPeace]

call a spade a spade
its not "redacting"
its censorship

[Whathaveiforgottentoday]

it is, well said talkinpeace

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Agreed, talkinpeace.

[TalkinPeace]

and, different religion, same gross intolerance that should not be allowed in this country
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-26482599

[lalsy]

This quote from here www.secularism.org.uk/news/2014/03/government-complicit-in-redaction-of-exam-questions-on-evolution includes a quote from OCR to Ofqual saying "In our deliberations we have reached the conclusion the most proportionate and reasonable approach would be to come to an agreement with the centres concerned which will protect the future integrity of our examinations – by stipulating how, when and where the redactions take place....."

So it sounds as if the Board's concern was the redaction process itself, not the wider issues.

I am not sure it is to do with academies and free schools per se - that link goes on to explain that the law from this Sept will require all state schools to teach the full GCSE curriculum, for the first time I think - but I can see that being difficult to enforce. And I suppose it is always up to a school, and should be, how much time they devote to a particular aspect of the curriculum for each group. So it seems to me too that the line has to be drawn at exam papers - everyone should see the same paper and no-one should be censoring them.