Help please with decision to drop a GCSE subject in year 11

[noavailablename]

I would be really grateful for advice.

I have a very stressed yr 11 dd. She is struggling with GCSE music. Not because she isn't a good musician, but because her music teacher has left the school, having covered less than half the syllabus in year 10.

Due to building work, the class are being taught in a portacabin and have no access to rehearsal space, computers or recording equipment.

The teaching is now shared between 3 temporary staff, only one of whom has any up to date knowledge, and she has been brought out of retirement.

Realistically I don't think there is time to salvage anything from the situation.

My dilemma is this:

I want to help dd maximise her chance of a place at a good school/college for A level, but the competition is fierce.

Is it better to drop a subject, or continue with the certainty that the only outcome will be a poor grade? Which would be the better option in terms of applying for sixth form?

She is currently studying 11 GCSEs.

TIA.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hello OP.
Afaik colleges only ask for 5 GCSE's and they expect the students to put forward their best results.
In terms of saving time to concentrate on something that will do your dd some good, I would say drop the music GCSE.
That's only my opinion though.

[NoComet]

Who teaches your DD her instruments?
It happens that DDs teacher is a relatively recently retired head of music, who continued to do some supply. Consequently this year, they are as much GCSE tutor as singing teacher.
(DD is only a grade 5 singer so, she cant get UCAS points that way.)

DD has found being able to work through some of the composition stuff with some one else really helpful, despite her music teacher being lovely. It is not an easy subject and very very different to the style of music O level DH did in the dark ages.

I think it's well worth asking if her instrument teachers themselves, or anyone they know can help, or at least advise her, before she just gives up.

[minidipper]

Letyourkids I don't think it is within many teenagers capacity to assess how best to proceed when a department at school collapses. I've seen this happen in unis too, and both students and other staff are very distressed. Why expect a 15 year old to be able to handle the outcome of quite a severe staffing problem at her school if the school hasn't managed?
You sound glib and smug and dismissive, not constructive.

[noavailablename]

Thank you to everyone who has posted with their thoughts and advice.

I am not the only parent who is concerned about the very poor state of the music department. I think we have come up with some good ideas and will communicate with the school as a group.

I think dd is feeling more positive about making a decision. Like many things in life, they look better after sleeping on it and considering advice, suggestions and other points of view.

[Wuldric]

An important lesson we, as parent's, have to teach our children is how to communicate with other professionals in their life, in order to solve problem's. This valuable lesson ought to happen while mummy and daddy are still around and not once they have left home and can't cope without overinvolved parent's .

I do wish that you, as a parent, or as an adult, had learned how to use an apostrophe. Your post has just made my eyes bleed.

[alreadytaken]

noavailable name if this was my child I would suggest she consider what taking this GSCE is adding to her life and prospects and what it is taking away. It seems to me that it adding extra work and grief and giving back - well very little. If she gets an A* it helps her plans by a tiny amount, if she doesn't it harms her chances more considerably. There is more downside than up.

Of course she will need your help to negotiate with her school. They believe they know best for children but IME get it wrong quite often. They certainly put their league table position above children's interests far too often. The idea that a year 11 child should be left to deal with alone is so ridiculous one can only assume it's a child posting.

[letyourkidsgrowup]

So sorry to have offended you , It was not my intention !!! perhaps constructive criticism may have been a better appraisal of my posting !!
However , my posting has certainly made you reassess your daughter, as you now describe her as a sensible 15yr old who is more than able to communicate with her mother with regards to HER education !!!! wonderful to hear it !!!! and long may that continue.
I had previously read an account of a dramatic scenario, I think you described her music dept. at school as a " SHAMBLES " I would describe that as a rather dramatic and reactionary response perhaps a tad over-emotional !!
I do not think "Mum's net " is FOR ME !! I would not knock it for other people though. However I have found that in life if you listen to, too many, other people, the differing opinions tend to make certain people confused and anxious !!
You describe your daughter as " Listening to accounts of friend's experience's in school in relation to their progress in music !!! ( perhaps it is a family trait to not trust one's own instinct . )
Remember , children use us as role model's !!!
I referred to paediatric oncology ward's as a reminder that above all else we should want our children to live long, happy, and above all healthy lives , I am sure you would agree with that.
I will now sign off , appearing, to have renewed your faith in your child .

[MLP]

Letyourkids,

Thanks for that wonderfully constructive contribution. I agree that teaching our children how to communicate with other professionals is a very important skill. I would suggest that includes having a basic grasp of grammar. I hope that your independently-minded (and educated) daughter is learning her grammar and punctuation from her school and not her mummy.

Speaking as one professional to (presumably) another, I haven't seen such poor understanding of the possessive apostrophe in a long time.

I would also suggest that basic courtesy to others is a life skill we should all teach to our children as they grow up.

I doubt the OP or anyone else on this list thinks that a decision related to dropping a GCSE subject is anywhere as significant as cancer (or a multitude of other issues) but this is an education thread where such issues are discussed on a voluntary basis. I don't think it us necessary to dismiss the discussion of such issues because there are bigger problems in the world that this specific one.

[noavailablename]

Goodness - letyourkidsgrowup. You have just come across mumsnet by chance and used your first post to be quite rude and unpleasant.

I posted in "secondary education" because my question is about secondary education.

I have had some very good advice here, and I am grateful.

FWIW my DD is very sensible and capable when it comes to managing her life, talking to her teachers, solving problems etc. How lovely for your DC that they attend amazing schools where all the teachers are approachable. Not all children are that fortunate.

DD is 15. When she has a situation she cannot deal with easily, she comes and talks to me. I think this is a good thing. We talk it through together. If I feel I need some good advice, I find that mumsnet is an excellent resource. Not the only source of advice and information, but a very useful one nonetheless.

I am confident that DD will be more than capable of solving all sorts of problems when she is grown up. She is not quite there yet though.

Parenting has to be a mixture of encouraging independence, but offering support when needed.

As for visiting a paediatric oncology ward; there are posters on mumsnet who have lost their DC to cancer and they have received wonderful kindness and support on here. Many posters on here have experienced tragedies in their lives. Many more have given up their time to extend friendship and help to those people. You appear to have judged the whole of mumsnet on very little information.

[letyourkidsgrowup]

P.S.
Perhaps it may put life into some kind of perspective, for some of you to visit a paediatric oncology ward.

[letyourkidsgrowup]

Happened to come across " Mumsnet " quite by accident and am fascinated to have read all of the above.
I have a daughter at Manchester High School For Girls ! she previously attended a well known south Manchester prep school, both my husband and myself are very obviously involved and interested in her education and want the best for her as the majority of parents do.
I am not surprised that many of the parents here have mentioned how stressed their children are with regard to choices they should be making at school, when their parents are also stressed and unable to make their own mind up about what to do.
If you have a reasonably bright child who is interested in her education, is it not better to advise her to communicate with her teachers about any fears she/he may have and then get involved only if he/she receives no satisfactory advice.
Who will sort out your child's life for them when they go off to uni. An important lesson we, as parent's, have to teach our children is how to communicate with other professionals in their life, in order to solve problem's. This valuable lesson ought to happen while mummy and daddy are still around and not once they have left home and can't cope without overinvolved parent's .
If you are calm parent's when tackling blip's ( and they surely are all blip's )then your kid's will not fall to piece's at the first hurdle.
Get A Life. !!

[tiredaftertwo]

This sounds really stressful and difficult. I don't know anything about music GCSE except that there are lots of different bits that need to be done. Oxford looks at no of A* and nowhere asks for 11 GCSEs. And option blocks at many schools mean kids can't do music even if they are good at it. And she can demonstrate musical prowess in lots of other ways.

I'd bin it, even if she still has to go to the lessons. It might help your case with the school to get the sixth from college to confirm it won't affect her chances there, ditto an Oxford admission tutor or similar. Then if they make her do it it will be obvious it is to boost point score, not in her interests.

What is really important, especially for Oxford, is to maximise the number of A*.

[minidipper]

From what you describe she might be better off dropping music as a GCSE and concentrating on maybe getting another grade in her instrument(s).

[Theas18]

If she has 10 strong subjects without the music I'd drop it. Much better 10 A/A that 10 A/A and a D...

10 decent grades is plenty for any application to uni. THe stress isn't worth it and will affect her self esteem and the work time put into music could be better spent on other things .

Keep doing the music for fun of course but leave the exam off. If she's that sort of a person keep taking music grades as practical grades have UCAS points in some contexts and a grade 8 or even 2 demonstarates serious musicianship.

[noavailablename]

She was predicted an A* in music, but it all seems to have fallen apart this term.

Several teachers have left and they are having cover lessons and temporary teachers in at least 3 subjects. It is a real shambles for all of them and they are all quite stressed and worried about their GCSEs.

The music department is in disarray and all the kids are upset.

DD is going to talk it through with her "home" music teacher when she has her next lesson. It may be that he can give her some extra lessons and cover the GCSE work. It is annoying though that the school should be providing this and I shouldn't have to be buying extra music lessons.

Also - I worry about her having to do yet more work in her free time.
I also feel really sorry for the other kids. I am sure most of them won't be able to have extra private lessons.

[alreadytaken]

if she is going to apply to Oxford drop it. Part of the selection process is based on the percentage of A grades they get. As she is at risk of not getting an A she has more chance without it. If the school don't like it they should have provided better tuition. Let her continue with practical music exams if she wants - they give UCAS points for the higher levels but arent counted for A* percentage (I think).

[SlowlorisIncognito]

longingforsomesleep Leaving grades off of UCAS applications is technically considered fraud, and if discovered, can result in offers being withdrawn. Doing this would be much more dangerous than applying with one poor grade out of 11- provided she has done well in other subjects, one poor grade in a subject like music (especially if she's done well in grade exams) won't harm her chances of getting a place (unless specifically applying for music).

Will the school allow her to drop it, if she wants to?

[Ehhn]

I only took 9 gcses, got 8a* and an A (cursed maths), went on to rg uni, ma, phd. I am only putting in my gcse grades to make the point that if I had taken more, there is no way I would have received those results as I am perfectionist and stressy - I nearly had a melt down during GCSEs and a panic attack picking up my results. Drop the subject!

[longingforsomesleep]

You may be able to leave grades off CVs, but I don't think they can be left off university applications can they?

[Refoca]

Music should be fun whether studied or not...my advice would be to keep it on, but treat it as a break from the stresses of study. DT was like that for me, and noone ever fusses at me for my 'one low grade'. In fact, with 10 other grades to talk about, she could just leave it off the CV entirely if it didn't fit in with the rest. No need to drop it imo.

[cory]

How about going to see the colleges and asking them? Explain the situation, ask how this would affect her chances.

When dd fell ill in Yr 10 and had to drop a third of her subjects we felt this spelled DOOM and DISASTER. She is now at one of the best sixth form colleges in the area, doing her prefererred subjects and loving every minute of it. They were very sympathetic to her situation and were mainly interested in getting a general idea of her ability through her English marks. Ironically, two of the A-levels she is doing are subjects she had to drop at GCSE (drama and history- obviously wouldn't work with maths or science).

[longingforsomesleep]

Oh dear - it does sound like a dire situation.

I think you need to make an appointment to talk it through with the school and let them know that you would like your dd to drop music unless they can guarantee putting measures in place to support her (and the rest of her class) and provide an acceptable standard of teaching.

Are there any one-year courses on offer that she could transfer to? (she will only have missed the first couple of weeks). We have a few at our school to fill the gap left by GCSEs taken in year 10.

[noavailablename]

Thanks. Just got back to this.

TBH, I think she has had a really horrid day today and is exhausted.

Lots of personal stuff going on in the family too. I don't want her to make a decision in a hurry, or in a low mood.

I think the thing that upset her today was the listening tests. They haven't done ANY listening tests or teaching connected with listening tests at all since starting the GCSE course. I think she has realised how little they have done compared with friends who are at other schools.

Also - they have had no support with IT and composition as their teacher is not computer literate.

I think she is panicking (sp) because the workload seems overwhelming.

She is in band, plays 3 instruments and does a bit of composing and arranging.

I am torn between wanting to encourage her, but worrying about putting her under too much pressure.

Maybe things will look better after some sleep.

[Moominmammacat]

Why not do practical music exams instead? G8 performance is worth more than a GCSE ... it's not worth upsetting her if she's doing 10 other subjects. That said, performance is a doddle if you're any good, you can do the composition in an afternoon but I don't have a clue about the listening paper.