Is an A Grade Gcse from a State School a better than an A* from a private School

[soul2000]

In the wake of the reported fact that 32% of pupils from Independent Schools achieved at least 1 A at Gcse and only 8% from State Schools and now doubt, a large amount of the A Grade"s from State schools were from Grammar Schools. If someone from a bog standard Comprehensive achieved 2As at Gcse, is that a better achievement than 4A* from a highly selective Independent School



I know these types of discussions are bound to come back to Grammar schools rights/wrongs, or about family finances or parents previous Educational background. I just want to see if people agree that an A from a normal Comprehensive requires a far greater effort than an A* from an a highly selective Independent School.

[handcream]

Worry - and that sums it up.

Reading some of these posts you would think that if a school was a true comp then NO ONE should be looking anywhere else. They get A*'s and pupils to the top unversities. Of course there are good state schools but I am not willing to take the risk of putting my children into a state school that ends up being in special measures, no expectations for their pupils, teachers dont care etc.

Wasnt a survey done a while ago (correct me if I am wrong someone!) where over 50% of people said they would go private if they could afford it. Why would that be?

[Talkinpeace]

handcream
But in my London, selective, private school, half of the year group had to retake our A levels as the school was suffering a meltdown and never let on to the parents how bad things were .... they just kept cashing the cheques.

Private schools get better results because they select, not because they are inherently better.
Some private schools get frankly shocking results and are only tolerated because the state schools are even worse ...

[teacherwith2kids]

Handcream,

Do you mean that

• You would use a good state school BUT you would worry about one in Special measures [Perfectly reasonable position, definitely a situation in which you would want to dig beneath the surface to find out what is going on]
  

OR

• You would not use any state school, because you feel that it would be a risk that ANY school could plunge into special measures and the teachers suddenly not care? [Which seems an unreasonable position to take - my DS's leafy comp has about the same chance of falling into SM as I have of winning the lottery [I don't buy tickets], for example]

[teacherwith2kids]

(Should point out that of the many private schools in my town, only 1 - and that an internationally known brand - comes near DS's comp for results. All the others do significantly worse)

[PurpleGirly]

Handcream I work in a very comprehensive school. We get average grades but the top band still get A and A*s and go to university. The last A Level crop saw 5 go to Oxbridge and a further 6 go to Russel Groups. At least 30 others have gone off to university this year, with about ten following next year. Four have apprenticeships, two are doing accountancy with a local firm that are sponsoring them through a degree, one has joined the RAF and of the remaining four - two have jobs and two have gone travelling.

At GCSE level 72% got the magic 5 A-C inc maths and English. They are going off to do a majority of courses including A Levels and BTECs. Of the 28% without the magic number most will be going to college to study a variety of more practical courses - they will train to be mechanics, plumbers, builders, electricians etc. as will some of those who got the 5 A-Cs. These kids are not failures - but are made to feel like it by targets and interfering governments.

Look at other countries, Finland etc. and see how they run their education systems. No exams, no targets, no pressure - but all children leave with good literacy levels. They also have no private schools.

I would never send my child to private school. I can afford to. I work really hard to inspire and enthuse pupils I teach, giving them opportunities to become the people they want to be.

In answer to your statement that if a school was a true comp no one would look elsewhere - in actual fact the reverse is true (as it is in Finland). If no one went to selective or private schools all schools would be true comps ...

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

Talkinpeace

Academy status ; ie the lack of external day to day oversight ; is going to make situations like yours worse

Well guess what has happened?

The school has now been academied.

The Head is seldom seen (hopefully he has locked himself in his office to write his CV).

It is only at 6th form stage that we are able to access other schools as catchment doesnt then apply.

[JustGiveMeFiveMinutes]

Purplegirly

Whereabouts (roughly speaking) is your school?

[PurpleGirly]

North West. None grammar area.

[JustGiveMeFiveMinutes]

Cheshire?

[PurpleGirly]

No. Why?

[JenaiMorris]

People will pay to send their children to private schools even if state GCSE results are just as good. They like the longer days, nicer surroundings, and having their children mix with others from (what they perceive to be) naice families.

[wordfactory]

purply I think the Finland is sovery different from the UK, that it makes a comparrison untenable.

Historically, Finland have not had the divergence in social strata that the UK has/had. Economically, the majority of the population fell within a (fairly) narrow band.

The population were also (until very recently) fairly homogenous, particularly in their views of family life/child rearing/schooling.

Not suprisingly their education system is a reflection of their society. This is all changing BTW, but that's perhaps for another thread.

The UK is simply not like this. We have always been far more individualistic.

[wordfactory]

jenai I think that's true.

I think there are a million individual reasons why each family chooses their particular private school.

Results sometimes appear on that list, but so too could anything and everything else.

As I say, we are a very indivdualistic nation, each with our own views and values. This has always been seen as one of our great strenghths. And we have a tradition of being very accepting of the views and values of others.

Not suprising then that there is no one educational system upon which we all agree!

[JenaiMorris]

yy, there are lots of reasons why people will still pay - I'm a bit guilty of reverse snobbery sometimes so probably sounded a bit sniffy

[wordfactory]

No, I didn't think you sounded sniffy.

TBH there are parents who use independent schools to simply avoid what they perceive as the great unwashed.

I'm sure there are parents who use faith schools, grammar schools or the nice school in the next county for exactly the same reason ...

[JenaiMorris]

Arf @ nice school in the next county. I wouldn't dream of it

[Talkinpeace]

as the county boundary is only 200 yards from my house, I viewed it as looking at schools within a certain radius :-)
that, and my catchment one is beyond hope

[JustGiveMeFiveMinutes]

Purplegirly

Just interested as I'm in the NW, and attended a comp there.

I agree Wordfactory that the Finland example, often cited, isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Having spent a little time in Finland, it seems to me that it is very different to the UK, not least that it's very much smaller. I think the UK faces very different challenges to be honest.

[PurpleGirly]

I only used Finland as an example of a nation that does not test until 18. I think in this country we are too obsessed with competitive grading that we do our children a great disservice. In previous generations children have not been a failure for not passing a particular exam. My dad is not a failure for leaving school at 14 and working on a farm, eventually dealing with farm transportation and giving me a good life. A child that does that today should not feel a failure - they should be given the necessary literacy and numeracy skills to survive.

I just feel that some people write children off, not wanting their own DCs to mix with them. As I said earlier - if education was not selective then all schools would be true comprehensives. Children would still succeed and some would still not meet a benchmark put in place to do what ...?

[lljkk]

I thought in Finland that they could leave school at 15, younger than UK, even. And there is a school certificate they get at that age, although it may not be exam based.

I just want to see if people agree that an A from a normal Comprehensive requires a far greater effort than an A* from an a highly selective Independent School.

I don't agree with that.

[MrsE]

My daughter went to a bog standard comprehensive, is an August baby (just to add that for those who say that they are under achievers) and got 6A*, 5A and a B in her GCSE exams. She has now been accepted at an exceptionally good college to do A Levels.
Her class size was an average of 30, yes she was in the top set, but she worked hard to get those grades and had good supportive teachers.

It is the pupil and the teacher who help achieve the grades not where they are schooled

[Bonsoir]

The critical ingredients for outstanding exam results are s clever and hardworking child, good teaching and a supportive family. DC at private schools have a greater probability of having all three.

[PurpleGirly]

Lijkk They have a choice at 15 to follow an academic or vocational path. This is compulsory. If they follow academic they will have exams at 18 before university.

That is similar to us but there is no label of 'failure' given. I have mopped up so many tears of children on results day who think their life options are limited - which of course they aren't.

[PurpleGirly]

Bonsoir of course children at private school have more chance of this because the parents are essentially paying for a service. There are, however, many supportive parents of children of all levels. I am sure there are many unsupportive parents at private school who have paid for the education so that they can absolve any responsibility.

[wordfactory]

I'm sure there are some purple but many? Not convinced.

Most parents I know who pay, keep a fairly tight handle on what's happening at school. Bad results, poor effort, unacceptable attitude are all communicated home pretty sharpish!

Not that many woud hand over six grand a term and think 'ah fuck it.'