A-levels vs IB

[lottie4576]

Hi, I'm interested in peoples views on A-levels and IB, which one do you prefer or think is better? I'm not really sure that I understand how the IB works and how the subject choice works (it's something like you choose from three categories?!) and the extras like critical thinking and the extended essay.

I would also like to know what the best schools are for A-levels and IB in your opinion?

Any views would be much appreciated : ) Thank you

[britishsummer]

Complexnumber, does IB higher maths just cover material to a level between Maths and Further Maths or does it also apply more extended problem solving skills than present A level syllabus?
Also interested to know what makes TOK so good in your opinion, I had imagined it from the title to be a bit woolly but if a mathematician likes teaching it there must be some clear benefits to it.

[complexnumber]

britishsummer I have not taught A'level, but have spoken to enough other maths teachers and looked at text books and exam papers to know that HL is more advanced than A'level.

But that wasn't your question.

There are some that I have spoken to who think that HL is equivalent to FM, and others who say it is somewhere in between.

A'level does give a student to study mechanics, which is not part of the HL syllabus. But then (in my opinion) HL does require a student to demonstrate mathematical nouse and problem solving skills with unfamiliar situations in a way I have not seen necessary in A'level.

TOK is where it all comes together! I will not be able to fully explain why I love it. It challenges a student to question why they think they 'KNOW' something, rather than just 'BELIEVE' something.

It does this by looking at some of the different ways in which we 'know' something and challenges how reliable or essential they are (Language, Reason, Emotion, Sensory)

It encourages students to listen to people they do not agree with and to respond without falling into many of the fallacies that feature in so many day to day arguments.

In previous classrooms I have had Christian, Bhuddhist, Muslim, Atheist, Hindu, Agnostic students all discussing stuff in a way you would rarely see a group of adults.

I love to help them grapple with the different types of reasoning, with how our senses can be fooled, with how language is so important to interpretation...

And loads of other stuff. It's just amazing to see young minds exploring ideas.

It does have it's woolly bits

[britishsummer]

Thank you (for both answers!) . Sounds like 2 good reasons in favour of IB. A lot of British Universities have traditionally underestimated how difficult it is to get high marks in different European Bacc so I assume they have applied the same logic / system to IB.

[wickerbasketcase]

Please please counsel her to think very carefully about whether medicine is the right choice. It is NOT a good career path at the moment.
Morale among doctors is rock bottom at the moment across most specialities, especially General practice. Most hospital colleagues that I know are also considering emigration, switching careers or emigration.
The NHS is an awful employer and rates of depression and burn-out are massive among doctors compared to many professions.
The only way I'd recommend it is to get the medical degree and use it as a route into something else, work entirely in the private sector or emigrate to NZ or Canada wheree UK medical degrees are highly regarded.

[lottie4576]

Hotair thats really good to know that as reading online it says that they aren't as hard and you don't go into as much detail as you would if you studied A-level! Has the course changed very much since the noughties?! Im still interested in possible schools that excel at the Ib or A-levels that I could send my DD too. Does anyone have any possible ideas or currently send a child to a school that you would recommend?

[PiratePanda]

It's all very well saying "IB is fine for medicine," but my DH does medical admissions at the upper end of the russell group, and he says that without a doubt the UB is inferior for sciences; less content, less breadth.

That doesn't mean you won't get into medicine if you do IB; you will just be set a higher tariff than you might expect, and you might struggle with the course initially. But why do that to oneself when there's a better option on tap?

[lottie4576]

PiratePanda sorry whats UB?! Thanks for your post though, I did get the impression from online that the IB might be less suitable

[lottie4576]

Haha PiratePanda sorry I just re-read your post and realise what you meant! Fell like a bit of an idiot not haha

[lottie4576]

I think Ive come to the conclusion that A-levels is going to be best for her now, has anyone got some good schools that they know of for A-levels

[flatmum]

I am not sure about the idea that IB I not good for scientists (unless it has changed). I did IB and did Biology Chemisry and Physics Higher and Maths English French lower and had easy offers from 5 Russell group unis to study biological sciences. I went to Edinburgh to study Molecular Biology and was able to skip the first year and skipped maths as my levels after IB were easily at or above A level.

this was in Switzerland though where it was developed. is the UK one different?

I would say that, at the time compared to my friends doin A levels, it was much more demanding as I basically was doing the same as them with the 3 science A level equivalents, but then with maths, English and a language homework to do as well and a project and extended essay. I would have thought suits am academic child.

[flatmum]

completely agree about first 2 years of uni! it was comparatively easy compared to IB and I did nearly come a cropper with too much partying!

[MrsSchadenfreude]

My daughter has just moved to a school in UK where she will do the IB. She has been told that she will sit the standard level exam in all of her higher level choices a year early - presumably to see if she is up to scratch and on track to get a higher level at good grade the following year. Out of interest, I bought her some GCSE maths papers to see how the standard compared with where she is now (she is nearly 15 and in yr 10 equivalent). She raced through the higher level GCSE paper, with a high degree of accuracy and said she had covered most of the stuff in the paper when she was 11 or 12. She is bright, but maths is not her forte.

[cafecito]

IB better in my view

[cafecito]

just seen she wants to do medicine. as a current medic I would still say the IB is better, highly regarded, more rounded and more in line with a rigorous medical degree than A levels which have now fallen into a farce with constant grade changing and meddling.

I guess if she is only good at science things, 4 A levels in her strongest subjects, including at least chem and bio plus one or both maths or physics and ideally perhaps a language, might be better but in terms of an overall education. But if there's a choice in it and I could go back and do it all again I would do the IB as I was very good at languages and other subjects like history and English lit on top of sciences. It depends on whether it suits her natural abilities.

[cafecito]

sorry, ipad typing..

[lottie4576]

MrsSchadenfruede,
Where are you sending your DD for sixth form? I find it quite interesting that your daughter found the maths higher tier paper so easy it just shows that the education system in England really isn't that good!

[lottie4576]

Cafecito, I see what you mean about the gov meddling with the levels

[lottie4576]

Cafecito, (sorry managed to send the post before I had finished it!) I think my daughter would really enjoy doing the IB as the does like have a breadth of subjects that she's studying. The only thing is, is that she really doesnt like English in fact if she didn't have to do it for GCSE she would of choose not to, which is my main reason why A-levels might possibly be better for her an I'm also worried about the fact that the IB seems to be renowned for not going into much depth compared to A-levels!

I have got another thread entitled sixth forms (private or state) for ideas of schools in which she could go to, if anyone has any ideas that would be great as thats also another key decision we have to make in the next few weeks! Do feel free to post school ideas on this thread as well!
I just I'd add that I'm really greatful for all the information your giving me so thanks, it has all been really helpful!

[flatmum]

I really find it hard to believe that higher level chemistry, biology, physics and maths are not the same depth level as A level, if not more so. They certainly were in my day - have they changed significantly? I am also interested in this do my dc as I have always felt I might steer them towards the IB if they are academic/sciency (bit early to tell)

[lottie4576]

Flatmum I'm not really sure if they do go into as much depth as A-levels as they are known for the depth and IB for the breadth. If you just had to pick from at least 3 categories then that would be perfect for my DD!

[flatmum]

I am not sure "known for" is a definitive statement though is it? the breadth of IB comes from the fact that you do 7 subjects, not the individual content of the Highers. I am curious now. Are there any teachers or parents out there with direct experience of both? I know when I did it (which is a long time ago so why I am wondering if they have been "watered down" since). I studied with a friend who was doing biology and chemistry A level and I used the A level study guides (as recomended bu the teachers) and I don't remember there being any significant difference.

I suppose pragmatically if your child is set on medicin and only needs the science why bother doing the extra stuff I suppose?

[complexnumber]

As I stated earlier, HL maths is far more demanding than A'level maths. I am fairly sure the same can be said of physics. I don't know about chemistry.

I bumped into an ex student of mine (TOK, not maths) recently and I was asking him about how well the IB had prepared him for uni (he is currently studying at one of the best in the UK). He mentioned how much easier it would have been to study A'levels. (He is studying Political Science, so maybe not directly relevent)

There are a variety of English courses now available within the IB program, maybe you could investigate.

Personally (and I know I am very biased) I think the IB has far more 'kudos' than A'levels. Though I accept that A'levels may be an easier route to University.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Lottie - she will stay where she is (international school in UK) for sixth form and do the IB. Yes, I was staggered at her performance with the GCSE practice papers - I really expected her to struggle.

[MrsWobble]

my daughter's school offers IB but she didn't do it so my knowledge may not be correct but the impression I get is that IB is only really suitable for strong allrounders as university offers seem to be for a total number of points unlike A levels where offers seem to be for your best three. If this is correct then you don't get any discard subjects with IB which given you are taking 6 might be a risk.

But I'm sure there are teachers/uni admissions people on here who can confirm/reject this view.