Level 6 in SATs

[VickySS]

Does anyone know what percentage of children have achieved (historically) level 6 at key stage 2 in Maths?

[Yellowtip]

Our school has done no extra classes and only this single piece of English homework in the entire year, so no obvious pressure (in fact no pressure). I've just received the weekly newsletter which informs parents that these tests are next week so please can we give them good breakfast next week and get them to bed at a reasonable time. That's it.

[lljkk]

Is the timetable so strict that all children sit the same exam at say 9:05 am kind of thing, nationally?

[Pozzled]

No, lijjk. It is up to the primary school to set the exact timings, but obviously all children in the school sit it at the same time. The rules only state the date and say that 3-5 papers should be in the morning and Lvl6 in the afternoon.

[Iamnotminterested]

It looks likely that a level 5 is going to be the old level 4 ie. the expected level.

FWIW most schools do not give a monkeys about SAT levels.

My Dc's school nod at them at best.

It seems to be for the benefit of the parents.

[Pozzled]

Iamnotminterested These schools that don't give a monkeys, would they by any chance be schools that are already achieving very good results? IME schools HAVE to care very much about levels. Low levels or lack of progress will have a huge negative impact, both at a whole school level and at a personal level for the teachers. Under those circumstances, it's really difficult not to pass the pressure on to the children.

[Pozzled]

Oh, sorry, I've just realised that you mean secondary schools. Ignore my post, I may be feeling a little stressed about the whole SATs thing right now.

[teacherwith2kids]

Interesting thread.

DS sat L6 Maths and Reading last year. 15% of his year got the Maths - 2 form entry primary - but none got the Reading. For DS that was a fair reflection of his abilities - he was working well within Level 5 for Maths for around a year before SATs, but as a child with strong ASD traits, finds the inference / understanding of emotions and motivation in more advanced English texts hard.

For him and his school, L6 Maths was great. It meant that proper teaching continued right through Y6, as there was new stuff to teach even the most able. The school linked up with the nearby secondary, who sent a specialist Maths teacher in one afternoon a fortnight to do 'maths problem solving' for much of the year. There was no 'SATs coaching' at all - not that type of school - but there was a freedom and motivation to attack a more advanced syllabus than might previously have been the case.

His end KS3 predictions were presumably generated from these - 8A for Maths, 8C for English - and at this point in Y7 in his comp he is on track to achieve both (L7 in recent Maths tests) so at least for him it has not been too 'shallow' a learning experience. However, as more schools get geared up to the new tests, I can see that much more 'teaching to the L6 test' will occur, and the learning might become shallower.

[apatchylass]

No pressure on at all at our school. DS has been doing swimming and drama all day and music and IT yesterday. But a handful are taking L6 in maths and English. DS is in English but not sure about the maths. Very relaxed about SATs - they're more a gauge for the school than the individual pupils' ability, it seems.

[lljkk]

It looks likely that a level 5 is going to be the old level 4 ie. the expected level.

I don't think so. I suppose it would be a good thing if vast majority got 5s & many got 6s, but it'd be very surprising, too. Last year there was lots of palpable disappointment from MNers whose DC didn't get L6. I don't expect DD to get it in math.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

DS is doing the level 6 in Maths and English along with quite a few at his school (about 10 doing each) I'd think he has more chance with the Maths.
I think whatever he gets will be something to celebrate, certainly will be proud of any level 5's. I think it's good to try for the one above what you're expecting really. I don't think it needs to be that pressurised. We're pretty chilled about them here really.

[hardboiled]

DS is sitting L6 Maths and English, he wanted to sit them because he passed all mocks. If he hadn't, he probably would've refused because in his school every child the teacher dimmed able to sit L6 was given the choice. Some children refused to sit them feeling their chances were slim. So everything has been handled very well, taking into account how the children were feeling about it. To be honest, the handful of children sitting L6 have all been prepared for the 11plus by either tutors or parents, so that is obviously an advantage.

As I understand it, science and writing are assessed by the teachers this year.

We are all having a relaxed weekend and the word Sats has not yet been heard in this house since breakfast!

[Feenie]

5% last year, I found the stat recently...maybe 2.5% for English, or 3%?

It was actually more like the other way around - not even 1% for Reading, so less than 0.5%, and 3% for Maths.

[b1uesky]

Can someone please tell me if the the Level 6 paper were reintroduced in 2012 ? Just that I've found a 2011 level 6 English paper and I'm wondering why there's a 2011 paper, when level 6 was only reintroduced last year.
It shouldn't really matter except the 2012 paper is very similar to the standard of the 11+ but the 2011 paper is almost like GCSE standard. DD was only told yesterday (friday) that she'll be doing level 6 on monday afternoon. The school didn't provide any extra help to prepare DD so I'm really stressed out right now and I'm sure DD is too.

[lljkk]

Can you find the link for the stats, Feenie? I think I found it on tes.co.uk, but can't find it now.

IMHO, it's not worth getting stressed out about. It's just an extra 30 minutes in the afternoon. The deadline for entry was back in March (I was told, long story). So teacher should have known for a while who was and wasn't entered.

[Feenie]

No lljkk, have had the same trouble finding them. The reading paper pass mark went up by about 6 or 7 marks from the 2011 sample paper threshold, which scuppered lots if children entered.

[Feenie]

B1uesky, the 2011 paper was a sample paper - 2012 was the first year since 2001 that the level 6 tests were officially set.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Please don't get stressed about your DD trying for the level 6 bluesky
I'm sure she'll be able to do some of it so it won't be too stressful for her. As lljkk said it's only an extra 30 mins in afternoon or whatever.
I think if we can be calm about them our DC's will be too.
My impression is they're more significant for the schools than for the individual children.
Worth a shot, and good practice for the future is my view !

[b1uesky]

Thanks JugglingFromHereToThere, You're right there's no need to get stressed. In fact I'm going to give DD the day off tomorrow and forget about SAT :)

[lljkk]

it's driving me utterly batty, I know I found a link that listed the pass rates for L6 in 2012 and I linked to it at least once from MN; CANNOT find it now. Back in Feb-March time of this year. I wonder if I linked from a Chat thread. Arrrggggghhhh...!

[bigbuttons]

My daughter is doing level 6 in both english and maths. They have been crammed for it since Feb. She is exhausted. And whose bright idea was it to do them in the afternoon when they will already be tired after tests in the morning?

[BoundandRebound]

For openness I am a secondary school Data and assessment manager

The level 6 is in my opinion a waste of time at primary and results in cramming and poor practices in many primary schools desperate to tick the box on their OFSTED questionnaire.

It was introduced last year when my child was year 6, and badly managed by his school with booster classes after school that they all hated. Not one of them got a level 6 and I know of 2 highly achieving maths children who didn't even get their level 5 because they were so confused.

Luckily it's all moot at secondary, none of the schools they have gone to, nor the one I work at, pay much attention to KS2 SATs - we base test and assess them on entry, set them loosely, re-set and re-target over first terms and have fluid sets over KS3

So do not panic. We normally see our english and maths teachers working furiously in term 1 of year 7 to get students back to KS2 SATs results as they tend to drop over summer and as a result of teaching to test practices or on the flip side see students soaring as they are taught appropriately at secondary level

(On a personal level my child achieved a high 5 in maths at KS2, didnt get level 6 so he felt like he'd failed no matter what we said and within 6 weeks at secondary -not the one I work at - his end of first term data report showed him at a 7c)

[lljkk]

The numbers I want might be buried somewhere in here, I've got to run but anyone who wants to read more carefully might find them.

That link gives (pages 102+, pg. 107 especially) some stats that show that the number who achieve L6 will be a rather tiny % indeed. Agrees with what Feenie said about Reading test being the hardest one.

Also some interesting comment on the value of L6 tests educationally (or lack of value even). Suggested that 90% of secondaries use CATs.

[Feenie]

The level 6 is in my opinion a waste of time at primary and results in cramming and poor practices in many primary schools desperate to tick the box on their OFSTED questionnaire.

It was introduced last year

The level 6 test was reintroduced last year, after a 12 year gap. However, teachers have always been able to teacher assess at level 6, and that result supposedly has 50/50 weighting with the test (but in reality really doesn't).

We have always been prepared to teach level 6 and have sent one ot two up to secondary schools as solid level 6s.

This time, there seems to be a huge rush to see if the higher level 5s can 'have a try', which is not what the tests are supposed to be for. Children should be comfortably working at level 6 in the classroom day to day before they are entered. The gap between 5a and 6c/6b is huge, especially in reading.

[Slipshodsibyl]

Please correct me if I am wrong but though people say L6 was re introduced last year, i think this is not exactly correct. 10 years ago, it was possible to sit L6 but I seem to recall that the children were actually sitting Key Stage 3 papers rather than age appropriate papers ( maybe more relevant in English than Maths) which, if i am right, made the exercise a bit silly but more of a 'have a go and see how you do' affair than is described upon this thread.

I have always considered SATs unreliable indicators for secondary and very reductive in scope. I'd be interested to hear some more comments from teachers about how they are viewed now, especially at secondary level.

[Slipshodsibyl]

Oh thanks Feenie - that is interesting