Have we made a mistake with GCSE options?

[SophiaWinters]

My son is ending Year 8 and this week they've started their Year 9 lessons. He is potentially interested in a career in computer programming and he loves history although doesn't see history being involved in a career. With this in mind the options he has chosen is ICT and History. Next year he'll be able to choose more options.

Son had his first GCSE ICT lesson today and has come away a little downbeat :( He said nearly half the class are boys who are know to muck around and be disruptive in lessons which today as expected they did. Teacher set them a task to do and the software available to do said task is dated 2000. Son has the same software at home but a much more up-to-date version, he said it took him ages to do the task because it is so old nothing seemed familiar on screen. He has complained to me before about the software being very outdated but I somehow thought that for a GCSE course they would use something a little more modern and relevant to the task.

The other options he had to choose from were Media Studies (we thought this would be a "soft" option), Sport (son isn't sporty and doesn't enjoy it much), Geography (not a favorite subject but he may consider this for the next round of options), Language (he's doing Spanish as a subject anyway but didn't want this as a GCSE option), Music (not musical at all).

Has anyone's child done ICT as a GCSE and what did you or your child think about it? What software did they get to use and how outdated or new was the software? I don't expect a school to have the most up-to-date version of everything but 12 years old seems a little dated. I would also expect the industry standard software to be used but maybe I'm just getting this all wrong in my head.

[lljkk]

.l (I want to know too).
Note: ZOMBIE thread otherwise.

[Dwafffamily]

My son is in yr9 and yesterday they had an 'options' day. He says he is considering doing the computing gcse. Does this differ to the usual ict gcse? I know the ict was considered rubbish and wondered if the computing is a different end or indeed the same and just labelled differently?

[GrimmaTheNome]

I don't suppose he needed to

[HandMadeTail]

Someone like Kazuo Ishiguro, Grimma?

Not sure about your statement about programming, but the analogy doesn't really hold up.

[sashh]

What does a raspberry pi do that a computer doesn't do?

It does a lot less in many ways, but it's £25, not bad for a computer and you can (I believe - mine's on order) allow you to program in assembly code - so you learn how the computer is handling data, not just that it does.

Teaching himself languages is probably the best way to go. Once you can program in one language you can easily transfer to another.

I've been using matlab recently and love it, but the principles I use are the same as I used on my ZX80.

[SophiaWinters]

WhatMakesYouSay, thank you for that information. I'm sure he will continue with the self teaching as he enjoys it very much and I will tell him what you have said about working with the older software.

[forevergreek]

Ict was always just one we had to take

Everyone had to do 12, think we only chose 3 the rest were complusory

I think it only became useful to life later in at a level

[GrimmaTheNome]

Would it be too extreme to say that anyone who needs a tutor to learn how to program is unlikely to be suited to it as a career?

A bit like, anyone who needs to go on a creative writing course wouldn't be my bet to win the Booker.

[WhatMakesYouSay]

As someone who has worked in software development, managed developers and is married to one, I would say that a tutor for this is unnecessary. There are many places he can go online to learn about various languages and to ask specific questions whilst he is learning - the development community is generally very helpful, or if you and he would prefer something more structured, spend the money you would spend on a tutor on some good introductory guides to various languages. Most of the very very good developers I worked with (in a high tech industry) were self-taught to some extent. There were not that many with degrees at all, and even fewer with Comp Sci degrees.

Also, tell him working with old software is a handy skill to learn. Most developers end up working with legacy systems and software at sometime.

[UnimaginitiveDadThemedUsername]

Drop ICT. Pick a language, Geography or Music instead.

By the sounds of things he'll be capable of figuring a lot of computer stuff out in his spare time. Encourage that side of things, and if he keeps it up he'll be better positioned for work/further studies than if he does ICT.

[cricketballs]

whilst I agree that the ICT curriculum in places is not the most appealing I am going to defend my subject!

ICT is exactly that - information, communication technology and the curriculum has been forced upon us by governments who set the NC and therefore the exam boards just continue with this.

However, as dull as it can be students who 'think they know ICT' because they can use facebook still need to know who to use all the tools available and not just getting a spreadsheet to add up numbers. To become proficient they also need to know how to use the functions, how to use a spreadsheet to model etc. ICT is more than powerpoint!

The NC for ICT is going to be scrapped and this allows ICT teachers (many are specialists; the non-specialists generally teach KS3, just as non-specialists teach a whole range of subjects ) to create their own SoW which you will find will include a lot more towards programming, and using multi media but I think that it will invigorate the subject in the schools where it is still going to be given a prominent position

[SecretSquirrels]

ICT to be avoided at all costs. I think many parents think it is computer science, which it is not. All those I know who have done it say it is dull and unchallenging.

[SophiaWinters]

There is a mandatory ICT course for everyone, this ICT GCSE is an option over and above the mandatory course. Having discussed with hubby and son I think we're going to leave things as they are with the course but son will continue to self-learn through the help of books, internet and experimenting. I'll also contact his ICT tutor to see if there are any clubs or courses on offer locally that might be interesting for him to join during the summer.

I've registered for a Raspberry Pi, had a good read of the website and it looks very interesting. Long wait time though for delivery!

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Been a bit of a waste of time for dd - she didn't even opt to do it, but they have to do a half course or something, she has now finished the course and will come home and say 'yeah, it was good, had ICT so I got my French homework done already'

[GrimmaTheNome]

Second what nobel said. My nephew has just started a computer science degree - I don't actually know what A levels he did but he spent a lot of time just writing stuff at home.

I think the point about Raspberry Pi (mentioned earlier) is that it doesn't have all the pre-built applications of the sort you learn to use in ICT. Its a cheap machine which you can learn to program on including (I think) building interfaces to control things. Sounds like a good thing to play around with, without all the layers of complexity you get on a windows PC.

[wigglybeezer]

Computing is available as a separate subject from ICT in Scotland, DS is doing it but unfortunately is struggling as it is definitely not an easy option! with the benefit of hindsight he probably should have picked ICT instead but he did well enough in the test to choose and the boys were all very dismissive of ICT ( it's a non- certificate course up here). Choosing options is really hard, I made DS1 take geography rather than history as he finds essays a challenge but the poor boy is finding it very dull.

Sometimes indepedant schools allow home educated kids to sit exams ( obviously for a fee). could your son follow one of the on-line courses available for computing and then sit an exam later?

Teaching himself would be good for his CV as long as he can demonstrate that he has reached a certain standard.

[genug]

We were advised that ICT is not well thought of, it covers skills that young people of graduate or programming potential can pick up in days without any formal training. This in itself may be less of a problem, but it also seems to attract some who would rather not be in the classroom.

Definitely look into programming, not necessarily as a GCSE option, but lots of exposure and practice, tutor should know of summer schools run by [better] universities that he can go to. Or google or call round your local universities. He will learn a lot more this summer at one of those, and network with others of the same mind.

If he is not already doing all 3 sciences, that would be a good replacement option, another language, electronics, geography, are all good alternatives. You're absolutely right to follow your instincts on this, good luck switching.

[noblegiraffe]

The kids at my school who are interested in computer programming teach themselves. I don't think a gcse qualification is going to hold much clout, tbh as they date so quickly. There are loads of blogs, videos etc on the Internet he can use to teach himself and he should be attempting to code his own stuff.

One of my students had his own web development business aged 15, another got a job in computing aged 16 based on his personal output. A friend of mine got a job as a games programmer by writing his own computer game. That's what I'd focus on rather than tutors and GCSEs. People on the web will help him if he gives it a good go.

[SophiaWinters]

Grimma and zzzzz, thank you for those comments. I will tell my son what you have said as I'm sure that will be helpful for him to know your thoughts.

[SophiaWinters]

Is it possible, with the help of a private tutor if I can find one, for my son to study privately for a GCSE in computing/computer science? How would I go about arranging for this to happen, do you think his school would be able/willing to provide any help with sitting the exam?

[GrimmaTheNome]

I write software for a living... of the age when you had to teach yourself. Sounds like he's on the right lines with learning Python and Java himself - its a pity his school doesn't do Computer science (my DDs - a girls school!! - is supposed to be introducing it next year, when she'll be in yr9 - I'd def encourage her to do that rather than ICT). But of the options he was given, the ICT sounds the best for him.


The thing I'd like to add is, he may know that he wants to do computer programming but does he know what sort of applications? If for instance he was interested in writing scientific software then the vital subjects are the sciences. My field we have a few computer scientists but mostly PhD scientists - you have to know what you're writing about.

[janeyjampot]

My DD was choosing this year between ICT and Geography and the school careers service advised her to take Geography because "she should be doing academic, not vocational courses". I don't know much about it but they suggested that the Computer Science course was the academic route. I was surprised to hear that ICT was not more highly regarded, but perhaps that's because I was forced to do dressmaking because computing was only for boys when I was making the same choices in the 80s!

[SophiaWinters]

The school specialises in Business Studies. His first choice school specialises in science and computing but we are out of catchment (slightly) for that school and although we went through the appeals process for year 7 admissions it unfortunately was not upheld. I know the other school would be a much better option for him (it was obvious from the open evenings) but we cannot get him a place there as they are over subscribed and we've tried the appeal and it did not work for us. We are gutted but what can we do :( I might look into privately funding some basic programming courses during the holidays for him or see if I can find a private tutor, I'm not sure what else I can do.

[CouthyMow]

DD's ICT class always has the most up-to-date programs. They also have run computer science for top set only for at least the last 4/5 years. It might help that they specialise in Maths and Computing? What is your DS's school's specialisations? It DOES sound odd that they are using 12 yo software. 5 years old maybe, but 12?!