Are you prepared for exam results to fall?

[noblegiraffe]

Apologies as I could only find this story on the DM, but Gove was quoted yesterday as saying 'There are going to be some uncomfortable moments in education reform in the years ahead. There will be years, because we are going to make exams tougher, when the number of people passing will fall.'

This reminded me of a thread on the TES forum about the latest EDEXCEL modular science results from November, where heads of science were discussing an alarming dip in results with students sitting the higher tier who got a U as they fell off the bottom and generally poor pass rates. There is a comment on the thread from someone who said they had a meeting with the EDEXCEL chief examiner who said that the A*-C rate for the biology module was 5%. While I can't find another source for that, it would seem crazy if true.

These students sitting the new science syllabus would be presumably one of the first groups of students Gove has in mind when he talks about falling exam results.

So, as parents, are you aware of this? What do you think? About time that higher standards were brought in or unfair on students who will miss out on a Cs that they would have achieved if they were a year older?

If you saw a fall in exam results on the league tables, or if your child came home with a poor result would you blame the exams or the school?

As a teacher I'm quite worried, as we seem to get the blame for everything.

[Fraktal]

Stopping grade inflation is good but the only fair way to do it is to rebrand the exams otherwise an A at Alevel in 2000 is seen as the same as one in 2010 and one in 2020 which could be as tough as one in, say, 1970.

Call them something different, and while you're at it change to a GPA system.

[startail]

I think the grades have got silly and the need to get all A, A*s puts a huge pressure on DCs.

A readjustment to reward a balance of aptitude and effort rather than just effort is long over due.

The head teacher on breakfast said it very well. Too much teaching to the test rather than a broader curriculum.

GCSEs need to be a basis for moving on in life, Not just a box ticking exercise.
You may be able to learn an essay for a contained assessment. That doesn't teach you to write a decent essay at university or report at work without weeks of preparation.

My DDs will get caught up either side of 2015.

If the change is handled well it may play to DD1's absorb everything, but forget fine detail nature. Having the confidence to think on her feet is absolutely her style.

DD2 would do well in the present system.

Clearly if too many changes cause chaos, DD1, who sits her exams in 2014 is going to suffer.

[ASByatt]

I see it as part of the Govt's drive to 'take down' the teaching profession, along with academies. free schools, changes to OFSTED etc etc.

I'm not usually a political person at all but to me the agenda seems clear.

(Although I agree that soemthing needs to be done about the level of exam grade inflation - this is not the way to do it)

[vixsatis]

This is sensible. As an employer, an A grade at A level no longer indicates anything other than the candidate came in the top 25%. With this many getting A grades a B is tantamount to a fail. The increase in firsts awarded by universities has something of the same effect.

We need a more nuanced system where we can see the varying shades of "good". Bell curve marking would be better.

It's tough on the people in the first year or two; but everyone will know the score for those years and expectations will be adjusted accordingly.

I would also support a reduction in the amount of coursework involved and abolition of the "modular" approach. The former is unfair on children without much home support. The latter encourages teaching to the test rather than teaching a subject in depth and allowing a candidate to take a synoptic approach to the exam questions. GCSEs and A levels as they stand are deadly boring, very hard work and yet somehow leave people with only very shallow and narrow subject knowledge. They are also of only minimal use to universities and employers

[noblegiraffe]

If they want to stop teachers teaching to the test why do they not abolish league tables?

If it is how well we teach the syllabus that the school will be judged on, then of course we're going to teach the hell out of that syllabus and forget any extras. Especially when schools who fail to do this to a satisfactory level get threatened with closure!

[ASByatt]

Shock horror, schools forced to work in style of market-place try using market-place tactics to do well - what the hell did anyone expect????

[wordfactory]

The reality is that somehting has to be done.

Teachers at A level state that even a GCSE at A* is not preparation enough. This is particularly tru of MFL where the jump is huge.

Staff at tertiary level consistently saying that students, even those with good qualifications, are ill equipped for the rigours of academic life.

Employers stating that qualfications are no proof of ability...it can't go on.

[ASByatt]

Indeed, the system does need an overhaul.

It needs something carefully considered and planned for - that's the bit that worries me.

[coolascucumber]

The argument isn't that there is an objection to academic rigour but the way change in education is introduced on a whim. The Edexcel situation (read the whole thread) has shown that hastily introduced and poorly resourced changes have been the cause of a great deal of anguish for a large number of students and teachers.

I'm all for English lessons where the whole book and related literature is studied. I would much rather have the whole history syllabus taught rather than enough to get students through the test. Teaching to the test is creating a generation that won't even be able to hold their own in a pub quiz. But we also need to support current students who through no fault of their own are suffering as a result of the politicisation of education.

The reality is for the next 2-3 years students will be obtaining vastly different results from their predecessors but will be entering the spheres of academia and employment up against previous years who may be far less able but have recorded much better grades. That is wrong.

[dandelionss]

surely examining bodies will standardise the new system against the old.

[LittenTree]

Earlier quote:

"I don't mind and my DC may very well fall foul of this change.

The thing is they don't need to differentiate themselves from the studenst who have beena and gone, they need to differentiate themselves from their peers. Hopefully tougher GCSEs will help with this. All A*s obtained by taking and resitting modules piecemeal is no benchmark for excellence."

That's absolutely fine as long as you can guarantee your DC will always only ever be 'judged against their peer group' .

My professional career went 'degree' about 6 years ago.. New promotions always ask for the degree not the diploma so someone with a 7 year old degree (and that much experience) often doesn't get an interview because they've 'failed' the first hurdle up against 2 year qualified degree holders.

Yes, 'something' needs to be done but I'm not sure this is it, untested, untried, as usual for any Tory initiative.

[prh47bridge]

I would hope that there is enough awareness of the changes, certainly in academia, to mean that comparisons between years are fair.

The current situation reminds me of a line from Gilbert & Sullivan's The Gondoliers - "When everyone is somebody, then no-one's anybody".

[LittenTree]

prh- well, I hope those DCs getting 'C's when in the previous year they would have got an 'A' will feel the love....

[LittenTree]

FWIW I recall the change from GCEs to GCSEs. It really was widely felt that they were equivalents. I recall being actually sniggered at with my 3 As, 2 Bs and 3 Cs GCEs from a GS- what a failure I evidently was!- by people with their 13 As at GCSE (and after dozens of modular resits...). I was even questioned as to why I was permitted to do my professional Diploma with 'only' a 'C' in Maths as they'd needed the heady heights of a B at GCSE...

[propatria]

Excellent news,lets hope that this is just the start,the "All shall have prizes" nonsense needed to be stopped.

[LittenTree]

Yes, yes, yes- but first of all custard and propatria- you have to let on as to whether you will have DC who will be directly affected by these changes- the ones who WILL get a 'C' instead of an 'A'. For the record my eldest is in Y8 so the new system should be 'in place' by the time they get there.

You need to be absolutely sure you won't feel aggrieved when your DC fail to get a university place because the universities won't suddenly, overnight reduce their grade requirements (nor dare I venture will 6th form colleges who'll only allow a DC to take an A level in a subject they got an 'A' in at GCSE).

Another group who I think we will see very unhappy about this one-exam-at-the-end, tougher GCSE regime are girls and the parents of girls. Modularity is a pretty obvious reason why girls results have overtaken boys.

Again, I will say 'This hasn't been thought through'.

[webwiz]

I am very glad that my DCs are not affected by these changes (two already at university and one in year 10) because I just don't have the confidence that the adjustments will be made by employers and universities until the system has been running for a while. The winners will be schools that stick to IGCSEs and parents with the resources to make sure their DCs are tutored privately. If you have an anomaly like the edexcel science mentioned in the TES link then you may already blown your chances of doing medicine at university with only Cs and Ds in your science GCSEs rather than A or A*. The whole thing smacks of a giant experiment.

[EdithWeston]

It's not really an experiment. It's a return to previous expectations.

Yes, there should be a "rebranding" so it's always obvious whether exams are pre- or post- revision.

But when I sat O levels, about the top 10% got As, and the next 10% Bs. Now 25% get A*/A, and the system is rapidly becoming meaningless.

Typical university offers in those days were BBC/BCC at A level. Everything will recalibrate.

[noblegiraffe]

I'm not sure if the people who are saying 'great' have missed the fact that in the science GCSE exam mentioned in the OP, only 5% of students got a C or above. Is that the sort of figure you have in mind when you think about improving standards and it being all fine really?

And thinking 'well that's just one module, they can just resit it' is missing the point that it was a GCSE exam that will affect the results of many students. And yes, they can resit, but students don't always improve on a resit, especially as they have to keep going with the rest of the course and don't have lesson time to dedicate to serious revision for something that should already be banked.

What if that had been one of the linear exams with no chance for resits? With only 5% of students getting a C or above and lots of students who sat the higher paper expecting top grades falling off the bottom and getting a U? What then for their sixth form ambitions?

And you can't just say 'well that wouldn't happen with the linear exams', why not when it has already happened with an actual GCSE exam?

[webwiz]

I agree noblegiraffe - the thought of DS being caught up in such an exam disaster is very worrying. The constant change in science GCSEs and how they are examined was already making teachers and children's lives difficult before the latest changes and one of my greatest frustrations with science gcses is the reliance on exam technique rather than scientific knowledge.

I don't have a lot of confidence in exam boards anyway after DD2 sat an A level maths paper last summer with a long impossible question on it

[LittenTree]

Yes, I'm glad there are folks out there happy to sacrifice their own DC to this brave new world, so maybe I won't have to.

I don't think there's any doubt that 'things must change' but I'm not sure this is the way of going about it.

[animula]

I've a year 9 boy and I'm worried. There was a special parents' evening for his cohort, spelling out the school's concerns (voiced here by littentree, noblegiraffe, webwiz and others). His is a highly-motivated school, that prides itself on outstanding teaching, that goes far further than the exams, so I take their worries seriously.

Never mind the whole issue of a sudden re-calibration of the meaning/value of various grades (which I think will be an issue for a particular cohort), the exact syllabus of science and a few other subjects has not yet been finalised, to my knowledge.

Not good.

Yes, I can see where Mr. Gove is going; yes, it is crazy that you don't have to read whole books (though ds has read most of the books on the English syllabus, in their entirety already) but ... this is rather like performing a U-turn on a motorway.

And totally agree with whoever said that those doing IGCSE will be sailing past, looking at the carnage in the mirror.