Dulwich or Whitgift?

[MaMerry]

After quite upbeat interviews at both Whitgift and Dulwich, and assuming that the state offer for DS is not up to scratch, we may need to make a choice between D & W. I'm struggling to split them, TBH. They both talk about academic success, pastoral care and co-curricular activity, are set in fantastic grounds and cost an arm and a leg. Can anyone help me split them?

DS is bright, interested in most things, an enthusiastic sportsman (but not going to end up playing for England in any of them) and says he doesn't mind which of the two he goes to.

[Fionnbharr]

Your DS will acieve his potential in both schools. In your place I would look at the practicalities around the commute. One must be easier than the other.

[CamperVamp]

Not sure if this is a zombie thread or just a long running thread, but I just read in the ES that a traditional rugby fixture between Whitgift and a neigbouring state school (John Fisher Catholic) has been cancelled because of trouble last year with the Whitgift boy shouting 'Chavs' at their opponents. The Head made some shallow non-apologetic statement saying something like sometimes rivalry overtakes the nature of the sport, making it all sound like a jolly extension of the game.

[ArthurMullard]

Not Whitgift

medium.com/@JimmyTLeach/bullying-happens-when-the-school-is-the-enabler-cac27010c4f5

[mydaddy]

A 50 minute drive does seem pretty far. If he's anything like my DS he will definitely have post school and even pre-school commitments. Rugby/football training, perhaps cadets. It can be a long day.
LS= lower six. It was very difficult to choose between IB and A levels and it was only at the last moment he plucked for As. The school definitely wants a lot more boys to do the IB.

[Mumofthreelondon]

We re 50 min drive and I think train will be same door to door. It's too far I think every day if he has late and early obligations. Impressed with what u say on academics - I really felt energised by the whitgift on my visits and DS loves it. What is LS by the way? So many boys do IB or why did your go for A levels ?
Thanks

[mydaddy]

Mumofthree, congratulations to your lad. My DS is now in LS doing his A levels after doing exceptionally well in his GCSEs. W is really a fantastic school and we haven't regretted for a moment sending him there. The expectations are very high and the boys are really pushed to the max. e.g many of the boys in my son's year group took their IGCSE maths a year early and unless they got an A* in it they were expected to re-take it the following year. Sport is encouraged and there are teams in most sports for most abilities. W has a strong tradition in producing first class sports men. How far from the school do you live?
Oh btw the current head is leaving at the end of this year after over 20 years in charge. Just hope the change doesn't mean a lowering of standards and if anything the school continues to thrive and improve.

[Mumofthreelondon]

For you on this thread who chose Whitgift in the end pls share experiences! It's seems a fab school - My DS has been offered a scholarship for W and very excited but it's v far for us so I need to figure out logistics of getting him there.

[magyarmum]

Any advice if the choice is between Dulwich College and the London Oratory? Our son is sporty and would prefer the former; but we are financially challenged. Is it worth the sacrifice and stress to send him to Dulwich?

[Robinia190]

Hi everyone - I have read the (now quite old) discussion about D vs W. The thing to remember is that W offers the International Bac and therefore A*/A tables are not going to reflect the achievements in the IB. The only useful measure to compare the two (and any other school) is the average points per pupil achieved at A level: in 2010, for which I have figures in front of me, W average: 1003.2, D:932. W has consistently outperformed D in recent years and scores the 2nd highest in UK for IB, after Sevenoaks.

[ameliacampbell]

I trust FT's rankings the most - Latymer Upper came 25th in the independent schools table this year regarding both A level results and GCSE results. It was the top co-ed school apart from the Perse School in Cambridge - which I think is absolutely brill. Their facilities are fantastic - just as good as St Paul's etc, and in 2012 they got 50 people into Oxbridge. Latymer Upper is one to watch!!! It is now considered as being among the top-tier schools in London

[EdithWeston]

Congratulations! What a nice dilemma to have!

[MaMerry]

Edith We have now received scholarship offers from both Dulwich and Whitgift. But planning to revisit one of them next week, as still not sure which is preferred.

[EdithWeston]

OP - it's after offers day now. Have you made a decision, and are to happy to share it?

[Mummle]

Just playing 'Devil's Advocate', arniesidd - what if your child is in the top ability band? Would you prefer your child to be in a school where they cream off the top ability and, thereby, have your child being taught within a 'higher ability' stream and, in fact, ethos, or would you want your child to be catered for within an "mixed ability" cohort which is already lacking those that have been "creamed" off? In that respect, the schools which have the higher academic results may not, in fact, have the "best" teachers, but the environment for learning is competitive and expectations are much higher and, therefore, the child will, by default, have to play their best game in order to compete... I am not saying that results are the be all and end all...but, I am saying that, if you are the type of person who is very conscious of results and wants to have your child get the best academic results they possibly can, then a selective school may be the best choice, if the child is truly a high achiever. Saying all of that,a lot more than academics make up a secondary school and the broader ethos and a child's happiness are the most important factors. Academic results are only one facet of the issue - but some parents (and children) are really 'work horses' and thrive on academia...

[arniesidd]

I know I'm a latecomer to this conversation, but nonetheless, what everyone seems to overlook when it comes to choosing schools is the fact that OF COURSE highly selective schools such as JAGS, Alleyns and Dulwich get such fantastic academic results - its because they cream off the very brightest children who are bound to perform well even if they were taught by a performing monkey. School academic results are NOT necessarily a reflection of the teaching, merely a reflection of the intake. If your averagely bright child goes to Emanuel or Alleyns, I simply don;t believe they will necessarily get better results at the latter; in fact they may be intimidated and demoralised by the fact that they are outstripped by their peers academically and simply give up. So judging schools by academic results and league tables is sheer folly; it's only one, very small, measure of how good a school is. i'd love to see how well Alleyns of JAGS teachers would fare with a class of 30+ kids from some of the state schools such as Eliots, which as far as I know is still in special measures.

[NiceViper]

I think it was the criticism of inconsistent marking that would bother me most. It might not make much difference to outcome in public exam, but I think it could make quit a difference to a boy's time overall.

[SoupDragon]

If you look at the last section of the report, for Whitgift it says they are outstanding in all aspects and Dulwich a mix of outstanding and good. Not quite what the other poster said - I don't think they get an overall grade.

[basildonbond]

Both schools have minimum GCSE points levels for current pupils as well, nice viper - I know someone at DC who is currently being warned their place in 6th form is not assured

It's fairly standard practice

[NiceViper]

I had a dekko at those when (paranoidly double checking) there was no OFSTED report. So I don't see where the previous poster's "outstanding" and "good" came from (esp when you look at the actual content of the report).

Is it the same head at Whitgift as when last ISI was done? DC have a new one, and I hear he is very highly regarded.

[SoupDragon]

I would say that, academically, there probably isn't a lot to choose between them and it is more a case of gut feeling, ease of access and amount of scholarship offered :)

[SoupDragon]

Dulwich Here
Whitgift here

[SoupDragon]

The Independent Schools Council does the inspections rather than OFSTED.

[NiceViper]

Something's amiss here. AFAIK, OFSTED have only ever done a social care inspection on DC's boarding provision.

Dulwich Music block has been closed during tours whilst it was being rebuilt, not because of lack of investment in music. Quite the contrary!

I'm another who has heard that they do not chuck out after GCSE. They have minimum GCSE result requirement fit 6th form joiners, but not for continuers. Whitgift and DC are both on the 2011 league tables, as published on BBC. But it seems Whitgift wish to repudiate their standing; fair enough, if they do not consider I accurate.

OP: I think the best you're going on get on this thread is claim and counter claim.

What did your gut, and DC's gut, say when you were at each?

[SoupDragon]

"just look up the 2011 Independent GCSE & A level results - out of roughly 400 listings, Whitgift doesn't even appear! Res ipsa loquitur! End of."

LOLOL. As Ladymuck says, that's because they withdrew from them.