Refusal to pay school fees for a child that's left

[JaneyPal]

Hi to all,

Any experience or lawyers out there please!?

Long story, but we have taken a child out of a prep school - great school until the final few years where they 'fail' to prepare children at all for the various entrance exams. Too late for DS1 who will stay but we moved DS2 with half a term's notice to avoid a similar experience in a couple of years' time.

As we removed him with half a term's notice (at the half term in the summer term), the school are threatening legal action for fees for this term!

Any experience of this and whether legal action can be pursued? Wording of the contract we signed seems very loose. For example, we are meant to give a 'full term's notice' - why can this not be from half term to half term? This would mean, at worst, we would owe half a term's fee....

But, essentially, we believe there is a 'contract' when we signed up to pay fees give notice etc. - we pay you money and you educate our children to the best of their abilities They have clearly failed in the latter hence our refusal to pay.

Any advice please?

JP

[JaneyPal]

Sorry, another bit of potentially useful expereince - the new school had no interest in our issue with the other school, even though v well known to each other etc. so don't be worried by that threat.

[JaneyPal]

Apologies to all for not responding - we were hit with a family tradegy.

Thanks for all the comments - wow, I felt a sense of moral outrage form some!!!

Anyway the story ended as follows - two Bursar meetings, one HM meeting and finally a Governor's meeting (yipes!) ended with an agreement for us to contribute a nominal sum to the Trust and waive the full term's fee (it amounted to 10% of what was being asked for).

Whislt there had been no series of formal action plans, failures, repeated plans, more failures etc. (I don't want to waste my children's time on that - if it's wrong, move). The school essentially knew th epoints we made had some validity and did not want them aired more broadly, even if the 'contract' was enforceable (which the scrap paper was not).


So - don't give up the fight to easily if you are ver in the same boat. We are paying customers, lest they forget!

[Bols26]

You would def need to pay up,this is part of the contract you sign when the child is admitted in the first place.

[slavetofilofax]

You need to pay, because it's quite obvious that you didn't give the notice required in the contract.

It would also be nice if you explained how they failed to educate to the best of their ability. Do you really think there is no chance that even with their best educational ability, there will still be children that are simply not clever enough to pass entrance exams?

[Pantone]

Private prep schools quite often don't prepare children for particular scholarships, particularly if they are 'tied', ie with a senior part linked to the prep.

If you want your child to do a particular entrance exam you need to bring it up with the school, if the school is a good one they will find out wht your child needs and teach them accordingly (ours does this anyway!).

If the education standard is so low that children leave without excellent common entrance grades and/or SATS levels then I am unsure why you sent him there in the first place.

Oh and you need to pay, don't be cheap ;-)

[killercat]

Yes, you have to pay and it can affect both of your children's education if you don't (whatever school you want or have moved your child to will be informed that you have not paid the fees at school A and they might withdraw an offer/place as a result of that).

Not sure what the issue is really. Schools to 13 do not tend to prepare children for exams at 11.

[Catslikehats]

Yes I forgot about the IAPS contract - in fact it makes mention in our school info that if fees are witheld they have a moral and legal obligation to inform the next school and when transferring schools you are always required to get a reference from the previous school (at least that has always been my experience).

[LIZS]

and I don't think it is uncommon when a prep school goes up to 13 for them to be less driven towards preparing children to leave at 11+.

[Colleger]

There is a contract between IAPS schools that states they will not take a pupil on who has fees in lieu or outstanding bills with their previous IAPS school.

[onadifferentplanettoday]

One other thing, it is likely that when your child starts his new school, that his prevous school will make them aware of the unpaid fees. It always amazed me when parents pulled children out with a sudden never before mentioned problem that they naively thought that the two schools would not communicate!

[EdithWeston]

Here is a quotation from Sue Fieldman from The Good Schools Guide (from 2008):

""Often, when schools present a final invoice you get parents coming up with all kinds of complaints, like: 'Didn't you know our son was being bullied?' There has been a 15 to 20 per cent increase in cases where parents seek to defend themselves in ways like this ? 'failure to educate', say ? when faced with school bills. These are the ones that get to court.""

[mumofsoontobelawstudent]

Agree with others. There is a contract, it is not 'loose', a terms notice is a terms notice. If you do not pay I have no doubt they will pursue you for the fees.

[Chandon]

you'll have to pay.

Don't waste money on lawyers.

[Catslikehats]

To clarify are you saying that you gave notice at the summer half term and therefore only want to pay to the Autumn half term rather than this entire term?

If so I can see your point but notice does ordinarily have to be given one full term in advance and if they have used the words "full term" then you are in the wrong.

The issue of whether you feel they have been educating your child adequately is by the by. Presumably they have been providing lessons?

[onadifferentplanettoday]

When you say 'fail' to prepare children for future entrance exams do you mean they don't work towards them at all or that your ds 'failed' the exams or that all the children did ? sorry but you don't make that very clear. If you have realised in good time and so removed your younger child surely you realised your older child was not getting the preparation either ? Are you saying all the children failed to get into the senior schools they were aimong for or just yours. If you are so disatisfied with the school why are you now leaving him where he is ?
As for notice if you don't think this school will 'fail' your younger child for another two years why didnt you give a whole term's notice before removing him?
I worked in the privat sector for over twenty years and most parents who have been happy with the school for years suddenly have a 'grievance' when they decide to move schools,anything to try and avoid paying the term's fees in lieu of notice. A private school is a business and unless the prep is one of the top few and very rich will have calculated it's costs for the next academic year well in advance,you signed a contract saying a term's notice and so you have to pay. I also wonder how you will feel bringing your older child into school every day whilst the school is persuing the debt.

[exoticfruits]

They can prepare a DC for entrance exams-it doesn't mean they will pass.
You need to read the small print-I'm sure they will have covered themselves.

[Colleger]

I also know of an incidence where a parent took a child out with two weeks notice and with another child about to start the school. The school demanded fees so she said they would stay for the next term but that would inhibit new pupils entering as it was seriously oversubscribed. In the end they decided it was in the schools best interest not to pursue.

Happygardening, how did it all go? Were you welling up as your boy became a young man?

[happygardening]

I know someone who has moved her DC twice with very short/no notice and not paid the next terms fees; in both cases she had a genuine grievance against the school. They didn't even bother to pursue her for the money. She said that on both occasions it was breach of contract.

[limetrees]

OP, I think you have to pay.

A full term's notice will be defined in the contract and 2 half terms won't be in this definition.

A full term's notice would be giving notice in March/April before the summer term starts. Then attending for summer term and going elsewhere from Autumn term and not having to pay for autumn term.

It will have been drawn up by lawyers to cover this sort of thing.

[TheOriginalFAB]

I think she thinks 2 half terms = a term.

[MorallyBankrupt]

What is there no to understand about 'a full terms notice'

The clue to the fact it's not a whole term is there in the word 'half' preceeding term....

[belledechocchipcookie]

I think the OP won't return, she's not been told what she wants to hear.

[Northernlurkerr]

I'm quite keen for the op to come back and explain:

a) how 1/2 a term's fees = a full terms notice

and

b) hoe the school can be deemed to be failing to provide and education when you leave your older child there......

[belledechocchipcookie]

You have to pay them, you didn't give them enough notice. Not all children are able to pass the 11+ and it doesn't necessarily mean that they have not been prepared properly.

[TheOriginalFAB]

Educating to the best of their abilities is not the same as educating them to pass an exam imo.