Need urgent advice - 2 DC without a school

[Matilda031]

I have two DC in years 8 & 10 and due to the MoD cut backs their boarding school allowance is being withdrawn and they have to leave their State BS at the end of this term. We are based in Westminster and after enquiries I've discovered the following :

I have to use the LEA to apply for In Year places, the LEA have informed me all schools within and surrounding our borough are full, the only schools who 'possibly' have places are under performing schools (some are schools in special measures) and all schools are miles away - some even on the edge of London.

It's looking highly possible that my DS who has started his GCSE's may not even be offered a place.

I have 5 weeks to find them both schools. If I appeal in order to get them a place at a local school (still would still be below national average) I am worried I don't have strong enough grounds (my grounds will be their current above average ability, their emotional state due to being forced to leave school, they are not use to travelling by themselves in London and will very scared if they have to commute long distances, both are doing well at sport : My DD is at County level for Athletics and my DD is doing triple science and is playing rugby at a high level (rugby is his world) and the schools on the available places list don't even offer triple science or Rugby on their curriculum.

1. Do I have any grounds for an appeal?
   
2. How long do appeals take?
   
3. If an appeal fails should I keep the kids at the home on a waiting list for a school in our borough or at least near our borough or give up and send them to a special measures school miles away?
   

This is making me ill - I constantly cry, I'm so upset and full of guilt as we are letting our children down, we have not told the children yet as we wanted to limit their upset & worry.

[drosophila]

I know there are 300 spaces in Wandsworth borough in secondary schools and that is just yr 7. Some of the least popular schools will have vacancies and some are near train stations which are a short journey from Victoria. From a practical point of view I would get them into the best, albeit low achieving school, asap and then lobby your prefered school to get a place.

[Matilda031]

Or the government could provide good schools with places in my borough, or the MoD could give notice to changes in their policy.

I could possibly live apart from my husband and the children and I could live in Wales but this all takes time.... again it could have been another consideration if we have been given notice.

I can't just give up my job without another job to go to as we would not be able to pay the mortgage.

All these things take time - am I to remove the kids from BS, start them at one school and then remove them again 3 months later after another move.

[TheCowardlyLion]

I used to teach at this state boarding school in Shropshire. Sadly, it would only take your DS as is single-sex but the fees seem much more manageable, and it's a first-rate school.

[bigTillyMint]

Just been rereading this. I would be AMAZED if all the schools in Southwark are full. Please try ringing the school directly.

[Matilda031]

Goinggetstough : we live in our married accommodation in London - our house in Wales is only lived in during the school holidays to escape living in a shoe box of a flat. With two teenagers we need it!

At this point we will happily take a bad school over no school, but really is it too much to ask that we at least get offered a bad school within a decent commute for our children. Why should my 12 year old daughter be forced to travel across London by herself when she is not ready for that?

I will start the appeal process tomorrow for a local (bad) school. Hence why I asked did anyone have any experience of this : how long do appeals take? any tips on best grounds for an appeal?

Drosophila : our LEA has said Wandsworth borough have no places ??

[Matilda031]

I've called and written to about 25 schools and all either say they are full with waiting lists or I have to apply through my LEA. My LEA and been ignoring me for weeks and this week I kicked off and threatened them with the press and surprise surprise they then offer me a possible place miles and miles away - oh they did say I could claim a travel card as the school is further away than a 75 minute commute (very kind of them)!!!!!

My daughter won't even go to the local shop on her own - how I'm to get her to and from school using various tube lines and buses is beyond me.

[iskra]

I mean this very kindly Matilda, but unless you can show there is some reason for your 12 year old to be incapable of travelling on her own, I don't think it's going to be a decisive factor. Children across London make long journeys on tube/bus even before the age of 11.

[seeker]

If she's 12, she should be able to travel by tube with a bit of practice. Children are often much more competent than we give them credit for.

[kangers]

LEA should have appeal guidelines- and google it. You need to make a statement on line and paper version also. I created a list of reasons with most crucial first- why my child needed to go to primary I wanted them in. You have a time limit to get it in by and then have to attend attend an appeal meeting- you can use a solicitor. You can get all this from the LEA.
I would also call schools locally that you think you would be happy with and visit them and talk to heads/deputies. If they are full they will say so and show no interest in yr kids, but that does not mean you won't get in on appeal.
I would also conside home ed- there are many organisations that support the process by providing online education for GCSE. They tend to be for Christian families but they do exist in UK. Google it.

[MrsFlittersnoop]

Matilda - I'm afraid the grounds you listed for appeal are absolutely no use whatsoever. High academic ability, not wanting to commute, sad at leaving their current school - none of these will help I'm afraid, unless your children have Special Needs. Forgive me for being so blunt, but we had to appeal for a place for my year 10 son and I've jumped through all these hoops.

You need to look at the reasons the schools have given for refusing your DCs places and take things from there. I assume you have been told the schools are full up. They usually say they cannot accommodate any more pupils because it would mean the school is overcrowded, and more pupils would constitute a Health & Safety risk.

What you need to do now is put in formal appeals at the best-performing schools you have been rejected from, and:

a) find out the maximum number of pupils per school year that the school says it can officially accommodate (i.e. "160 pupils per year");

b) find out the ACTUAL number of pupils per school year the school has, going back for the last few years (i.e. current actual figure for Year 10 is 165, 2010 was 168, 2009 was 164). You can get these figures from the school admissions officer. They will have to provide you with this info becuase you are going through an appeals process with the school.

If you can prove that the school has consistently taken in more pupils than the official limit, then you have stronger grounds for appeal. Good schools are always over-subscribed in London, and almost always take a few more pupils than the official limit.

Something else to consider is that inner-city schools have a high rate of "churn", ie pupils leaving the school during the school year. This should also work in your favour.

Read through the school prospectus. If the school is a science or sports specialist school that will work in your DC's favour. Look at what the school claims to offer and try and put a case together as to why THIS school and no other is suitable for your DC. Are they the only local school offering Triple Science for example? Sell your DC to the school - explain how they will make a positive contribution to the school community. Offer to get involved as parents, run after-school clubs, fund-raising, prostitute yourselves as PTA raffle prizes, anything at all you can think of.

Make an appointment to visit the head-teacher of the school, prefferably with your DC. Ask for a guided tour. Praise the school to the skies. Make the admissions officer your New Best Friend and send her a box of chocs every time she answers your queries.

Please feel free to PM me if you need any advice or hand-holding through all this - I know how difficult it is .

[drosophila]

I understand that 45 mins is considered to be reasonable travelling time but I don't think that is a legal limit. I find it strange that there are no spaces in your borough. That make no sense to me. Phone the schools directly and establish what is the true picture.

[MrsFlittersnoop]

Sorry, I meant to add - please don't rely on the LEA. Approach the schools you are interested in directly.

[Boardingschoolmum]

Sorry no offence meant.

I agree with you - its truely shocking that they can treat your kids like this and take no responsibility for trying to assist in getting them into local schools.

I am so angry for you. I would be devastated in your situation.

[Vicky2011]

I'm sorry but in these circumstances I would be go to the press. Its not completely unreasonable to cut funding for your younger child but to refuse to cover a child in the run up to GCSEs is appalling and also, as you say, if you had only had more notice of this you would have been in a much stronger position to self fund, if you had time to sell your Welsh property. I think this is the line to take with the press, it sounds more sympathetic to most people, who couldn't afford fees anyway. You are also being shafted by the credit crunch as in other times you would probably have been able to borrow enough to at least get your son through the next 18 months. The other thing is that you may get paid for your story and every little helps.

Keep talking to the banks and to the the schools but also, I'm afraid, you need to get more publicity for this.

[kangers]

Liking MrsFlittersnoop post- take it up Matilda

[Boardingschoolmum]

This is so awful - I have been thinking about you as I drove my DC back to school earlier this evening.

I am just so shocked they can just stick the boot in on your eldest DC especially. Its the lack of notice to you and your kids that is just so unfair.

Even being a CEA claimant I do appreciate cuts need to be made and changes made to the system, but that is no excuse to treat people so appallingly. I would be gutted to move either of my kids with such short notice at any age but within the GCSE years just does not bear thinking about.

This must also be a right kick in the teeth to your DHs moral as well,

"cheers mate for your 25 years service and risking your life in several wars during that time but you know what.....we're gonna screw your kids life up now"!!!!

Sorry - I know I am not being at all helpful but I am just so disgusted at the way the MOD/Government has treated you and the other families you mention.

On another level I would be so angry because like you we have made lifestyle and family choices with regards to my DHs career, that if we were to know something like this was to happen then we would have made other choices. The CEA is an expensive allowance but for most BSs it falls way short of the minimum 10% contribution. Like you we have made some hefty financial sacrafices in order to "top up" the allowance shortfall on the basic fees let alone all the extra stuff that goes with kids in BS. I would also feel conned and ripped off at the money that has potentially been thrown away with this level of disruption, stress and upset it will no doubt cause the DC. But at the end of all of this - the most distressing and disturbing factor in all of this - is the upset/distress/potential educational damage it will cause children.

As new rules and changes come into effect with the CEA there are going to be alot of kids leaving BS and opting for their current local schools - your experience is really making me realise now that the MOD/Government have not really given much thought to this issue, where are all these kids going to go to school if the government cant be arsed to ensure they have places before withdrawing the means to their current school place. Lets face it - most CEA kids live on bases,how many kids per anyone base may be looking for spaces in the local school?

Sorry to rant on - but I really am so sorry and angry for you.

I think in your situation I would be tempted to move back to Wales leave your DH to do unaccompanied and move into barracks/mess get the kids into a local school in Wales. They surely can't also all be in special measures, you may have more choice in Wales too. Far from ideal but something to investigate perhaps.

Please do come back and keep us informed of how you get on.

Has you or your DH ever served in Scotland? QVS may be an option (bit extreme with distance) if so - I posted the link earlier today.

[admission]

What you need to do is not accept the LAs pitiful response. You should select the three schools that you think are the most appropriate and preferably the nearest schools to you in Westminster and fill in the forms for places at these schools. Westminster by law must reply to you saying they are full and giving you the option of going to appeal. They must also by law allocate you a place at a school. OK this may be miles away and will probably be not a good school but they have to abide by the law, not just abdicate responsibility by saying the schools are full.
I would ask for your applications to be considered under the In-Year fair access protocol as they are saying that there are no places at all in the LA. This is a legal way of placing pupils in a school which is full and one of the criteria for being eligible is being service personnel.
However the other thing you need to do is get the MOD organised. Certainly around my neck of the woods any appeal involving service personnel there is an offcier attending the appeal hearing and they point out that service personnel should be given some altitude etc and there is no difference in your situation, they should be prepared to come and argue for a place at one of the three schools that you have requested.

[Boardingschoolmum]

I am sure I read somewhere recently that state schools were going to be entitled to some kind of (small)payment for places they gave to children of service personnel.

I think it is something to do with not letting service kids be disadvantaged when moving to a new area or something along those lines. Is there anyone more in the know - able to confirm/advise re this please????

Sorry to be so vague. Anyway I wonder if this is the case if you have anything to loose by approaching the schools you want directly and making them aware of this, before you go to appeal.

I know ultimately the decision lies with the LEA above the school but surely in your circumstances anything is worth a try, getting anyone you can on your side may be worth a try at the very least.

[Boardingschoolmum]

This might have some info on it

www.army.mod.uk/news/22983.aspx

[SeeJaneKick]

Gosh Ireally hope you manage to sort something out that's no too traumatic for you all.

I can't imagine how insecure you must be feeling right now.

Is there any way you can get rid of the army accomodation house? Nowonder it's expensive...you're having to run 2 homes! The Welsh one and the other one...no other option at all?

[SeeJaneKick]

Can you rent the Welsh house out? There are agencies who'll get it on the market fast...you're living in a rental but keeping a home in the country basiccally...I'm not trying to minimize your situation but this isn't doable for most people in times like these...local authorities are always looking for private rentals and a LA tenant does not mean a bad tenant...your rent is usually guaranteed and they'll vet them,

[gingeroots]

Matilda - Flittersnoop gives good advice .
Like BTM ,I'd be amazed if all the Southwark ( Charter and Kingsdale good and easily accesible from Westminster/Victoria )and Westminster - I'd be doubly amazed if Pimlico Academy ( outstanding in last Ofsted )was full .
Have you been into the schools ,spoken to Heads ?
None of the schools I've mentioned are under LA control ,so wonder how close the link is between the LA admissions team and the school ?
Which is not to say horrified that your DC has to leave at this stage ....tho GSCE exams are not far away and hopefully he's covered enough of curriculum to cope .
Would it be good idea to make enquiries about him sitting exams /being entered for them now so that at least you're sure he can take them ?

poster on mumsnet by name of prh47bridge who's really knowledgeable about this kind of stuff ,admissions etc .
If he's not along soon perhaps you could message him.

[mary21]

Hi

Another option is to look into educational grants. I think Gabbitas might have a list