A Level English: advice from Uni admissions people please

[senua]

Do you make any distinction between A Level English 'Literature' and 'Language and Literature' for admissions purposes, or are they interchangeable?

[gramercy]

Must say, Supersunnyday: "Coral conserving". Hee hee. But it's a bit worrying that you had to advise admissions tutors not to be swayed by posh kids' achievements.

Can an A* in English Literature compete with an English Language A Level if the latter applicant has built seven orphanages and brokered world peace?

[Ponders]

Well I suppose that can be a consideration, but they try really hard to give everybody what they want afaik.

Good luck anyway (him & you )

[senua]

Thanks Ponders.

After all that debating, I have a horrible feeling that DS's choice may not de decided by the high-minded 'what is the best educational choice?' but by the more humdrum 'what fits into blocking?'

[Ponders]

And on the subject of Law "done by bad schools only by pupils who will get low grades" - from the same college:

Y gained 3 grade As in his A Levels in Psychology, Information & Communication Technology and Law. Y is now following his ambition to study Law at Leeds and wants to enter the profession after graduating.

Z gained an A* in Law at A Level, an
A grade in Government and Politics and a B grade for his English Language. Y is now off to Warwick University to study Law.

[Ponders]

(I mean obviously he is an outstanding student all round, & was doing a good mix of strong subjects, but still, L&L didn't hold him back...)

[Ponders]

This is from a local 6th form college:

X gained 2 A*s in History and English Language and Literature, plus a further 3 A grades in Mathematics, Physics and Critical Thinking. X will be carrying on our Oxbridge tradition this year as he is now off to Worcester College, Oxford University to read English.

And this college does offer the separate options as well.

Ha!

[reddaisy]

Senua - good luck.

My mum would not let me do GCSE drama even though it was my favourite subject.

She made me take German GCSE instead which I loathed and then I got a C. I know I would have got a much higher grade for drama.

I'm not suggesting you are like this but I also think that going to Oxbride/Russell Group uni isn't the be all and end all of life either. He has to be happy too.

But if he does well at school then the teachers will all want him to choose their subjects. He will have to be strong and go with his instinct.

[senua]

I agree that the choice is his; I should take a backseat and give impartial advice (hence asking the question - checking my facts!).
The problem is that the L&L was being touted by the teacher and I think that DS may have been swayed by the 'please do my subject' flattery.

[Ponders]

what reddaisy said

In Y11 you really can't do more than giving your child advice - you mustn't choose for them! (If nothing else because if they do make a hash of a subject you made them do it will be your fault)

[amothersplaceisinthewrong]

My daughter did last year A LEvel Eng Lit. lang and lit was definitely "sold" as a lesser option by her school (state comp)

[reddaisy]

I said it before and I want to say it again. I assume your DC is 16, so let him study what he will enjoy.

Whilst you should have an opinion he is now old enough to make his own informed choices.

There is no point him studying an A-level that he doesn't enjoy and subsequently he could get a lower grade because he doesn't apply himself.

Every Oxbridge applicant has straight As,he can support his application form through extra curricular activities if he wants to apply when the time comes.

So let him pick between Lit and Lang/Lit.

[AuntAda]

There is no conflicting advice -- the Cambridge website says that English Literature is teh desirable option and that Eng Lang & Lit is acceptable if the applicants school does not offer straight Eng lit.

The implications of this are, very straightforwardly, that English literature is the more highly-regarded course but that they may make exceptions for applicants whose schools don't offer it, in order to try and even up the playing field for kids from schools that don't have a traditional academic bias and/or who were poorly-advised because their schools and teachers are not geared up for getting people into to universities.

If she has the choice between Eng Lit and Eng Lang & Lit, and wants to read Egnlish at a good university or poss even Oxbridge, then obviously she should choose Engl Lit A level. It's a no-brainer.

[clam]

What course is it for?

[thekidsmom]

Actually, the top private schools DO offer Lang and Lit as an A level... my daughters go to a school which topped one of the paper's lists last year for A level performance and sent 30 girls to Oxbridge.

They offer both Eng Lit and Lang/Lit as A levels and both are being studied by girls wanting to go to Oxbridge. The distinction comes if they want to do English at uni, which my DD does, and on that basis she was advised to do straight Lit. But Lang/Lit is an option for those wanting to study something else.

If you go through the websites of the Russell Group unis, they all have their own take on what they prefer.

So top private schools do offer Lang/Lit, other posters are mistaken in that.

[lazymumofteenagesons]

Xenia has a point when she says look at what the top private/public schools offer at A level and where the majority of their pupils go onto university. None of these schools offer english lang at A level.

Safest bet is to opt for english lit. You could still apply for a linguistics course or journalism with this.

[senua]

So much conflicting advice!

The booklet says that Lit is OCR and L&L is AQA - does anyone have any views on that?

[Xenia]

And perception of others can matter in later life even if those others are wrong. If the best dentistry course in the UK is at Sunderland Poly and GCSE law is the hardest exam in the land it matters not if those who might be lokoing at your CV for the next 20 years may not know that. So go for the safer option. I don't think all schools tell pupils how some subjects are regarded.

[campergirls]

True RustyBear though as Cory says it's not just about admissions, but preparation to do well when you get there. Experience shows that a significant proportion of students who've done the joint A-level do find the volume and pace of reading involved in a Lit degree a challenge. Doesn't mean they can't rise to it of course!

One more thing for anyone whose dc do know they want to do Eng Lit at university: the standard offer for Eng Lit at quite a few 'top' universities is now AAA, and competition for places is such that some are selecting within the pool of candidates predicted to get those grades. In that situation, which English A level you've done might be a differentiator (if there's such a word!).

[Ponders]

(& she subsequently did a PGCE in secondary English, & is teaching it at a very good school!)

[Ponders]

My daughter did L&L. She went on to get a good Linguistics degree at a Russell Group uni, & she chose Linguistics because of what they covered in the the Language part - she'd had no idea at 16 what she wanted to study at university.

[campergirls]

Another Russell Group academic coming in to say Newspap is right. In itself, the lang+lit joint A level is fine - it teaches critical analysis, evaluation of evidence, construction of argument etc just like most arts and humanities do. If your son pursues it, he may need to have those claims at his fingertips of course just in case he comes up against someone as ill-informed and opinionated as Xenia.

However, for someone who wants to do English Literature at uni, the Lit A level definitely is preferable because it's better preparation for the intensity and autonomy of the workload involved. So if that's even a possibility for him, he should do the joint one at AS with a view to just doing Lit at A2.

[RustyBear]

Not actually true to say that you have to do single English lit to do an English degree - DS's friend did Lit and Lang and read English at Warwick (Russell Group); he's currently doing an MA there.