Not doing English at higher

[Nospringflower]

My son wants to study medicine, preferably at Oxford but if not the best he can get a place. We are in Scotland and so do Highers and Advanced Highers after doing National 5s in S4.

He is now at the stage of choosing his Highers and wants to drop English. He doesn't enjoy it and it isn't on the list of required subjects for medicine other than at Nat5/GCSE level.

I get his reasoning but when I was at school anyone academically able to do it was strongly advised to. Not sure if things have changed.

Does anyone think this will cause difficulties? Thanks for any advice

[thecitydoc]

Salmotrutta - times have obviously changed in 10 years

[Salmotrutta]

Well citydoc a very quick google shows that Edinburgh and St Andrews websites both state that Higher Human Biology may replace Higher Biology as one of the suggested requirements, Aberdeen simply states Biology/Human Biology as a requirement (so the same really) and Glasgow just says Higher Biology and Higher Human Biology will not be considered as separate subjects but this implies they both have equal weighting in the selection procedure.

Not sure about English universities but it is a fact that Higher Human and Higher Biology are both acceptable at Scottish Universities.

[thecitydoc]

Salmotrutta - my son's school offered both and those applying for medicine had to have full biology - if they did human in 5th form they had to do full in 6th, and therefore only received conditional offers. The med schools may accept human if ful not offered by school - best to check with med school

[starving]

My suggestion would be to check the course requirements. My dd also wasn't keen on English. The course she was interested in (not medicine) asked for Maths & English at Nat 5 or equivalent. She did not do English at Higher, preferring to get the required number of Highers in subjects she was interested in and stood a better chance of getting good grades. She got 5 offers and is currently midway through third year.

[Salmotrutta]

thecitydoc - Higher Human Biology is absolutely fine for medical applicants.

One school I used to work at only offered Higher Human Biology and no Higher Biology (this is not uncommon actually) and they had lots of successful applicants to medicine!

[wigglybeezer]

My good friends son dropped English and did economics higher instead. He is now a fourth year med student at St Andrew's/ Manchester like the city doc's DS.

[Nospringflower]

Well since writing this I have met a friend whose son is planning to drop English.

I think there has been a shift and I am now completely happy to support my sons decision to drop it! I have said he should make sure he gets an A in his Nat5 though.

[LunaLoveg00d]

In "my day" (sat highers in the late 80s) everyone did English. In our school it was VERY much the norm to do Highers in English, Maths and then three other sibjects. I remember a friend who really didn't get on with maths having a real battle with the department to let her drop it and do something else instead.

Reading this thread with interest though as my son is picking options for his Nat 5s and is definitely heading down a biology/biochemistry type path. We may be having this "but can I drop english" discussion soon too.

[thecitydoc]

not sure human biology will be enough - he might need to do full biology. seem to recall a peer of my son had to do crash full biology in S6 to get a conditional place at med school whereas my son who had done full biology got unconditional offers. You will need to check with med schools

[thecitydoc]

When my son was applying for medical school in 2007 I emailed each medical school admissions officer in Scotland to ask this question as the high school had Higher English as almost compulsory. All the medical schools emailed back to say HE not required - the key subjects were chemistry and biology, with either maths or physics, and all needed to be grade A so recommended other subjects to be those he would achieve the grade A at. In the end he did HE and got 5 garde As and went to St Andrews/Manchester.

[Kittyshopping]

Jumping in here to give my tuppenceworth. DS graduated in medicine last year from Scottish uni. His (private) school would not let them drop English as a Higher subject. It was not his strong point but I'm glad they made him do it. Yes, essay writing was a part of the degree. Communication, in the wider sense, is a huge part of medicine.

My DH was educated abroad and is aghast at the trend to "drop" core subjects at a very young age here. We specialise and stream students very very young in the U.K. Education system.

Good luck with the med school application. It's a bumpy ride!

[howabout]

When I was your DS's stage I wanted to be a vet and duly picked 3 sciences Maths and English. I was offered the chance to get out of compulsory PE by adding history higher. By the end of 5th year I had gone off all medical notions and went to Uni to study Law. Had I dropped English this option would have been closed to me. 15/16 is still very young to shut options down if you don't have to.

[InformalRoman]

Not taking English at Higher wouldn't restrict choices for science or engineering courses though as an alternative to medicine.

It's worth taking a look at this FOI request on Oxford Medicine applications for 2016 entry:

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a100_admissions_statistics_2016#incoming-820715

[Nospringflower]

Thanks everyone. I will have a look at / ask my son to have a look at the language section on the UKCAT and also look at the facilitating subjects.

It seems like Scottish people, and particularly older Scottish people like me!, are especially horrified at the thought of not doing Higher English.

I'm aware that he may not get the necessary grades or that even with them he may not be accepted for medicine but he could then take H Eng in S6 or after if necessary. I know it can make life harder though!

[cdtaylornats]

Wanting to study medicine is great - but what if he doesn't get the grades. Not taking English will limit his alternatives.

[HamletsSister]

Look at the list of facilitating subjects. I think he might find BM doesn't sound as good / useful as, say, History.....or English.

Not sure if he needs H English (English teacher here - in Scotland) but, with the new Higher, it is easier for non-natural pupils to get an A at Higher English. If he can get an A at N5 with ease then he should be fine with Higher, as long as he has a good teacher. But, pick an alternative that is an equally weighty subject.

[Lidlfix]

Get him to look at the UKCAT tests specimen papers and see if how he would fair in the language section with his current knowledge .

I quite often have S6 Medicine and Dentistry applicants who focus (strategically) on the subjects they are strongest at to bag the 5As they needed in S5. If English wasn't a strength they didn't take it in S5. They then hit the UKCAT test after a year away and some are shocked at how hard they find the language section.

[lancaster]

A level English not a requirement either. This was also the case when I started medicine in 1997 - most people had purely sciences/maths A levels.

[WankersHacksandThieves]

I'd have thought you'd need to be able to write a fairly decent essay and be articulate in written form to get an A in Nat 5 English so I'm not concerned on my DSs behalf. He is likely to do Engineering or Computing though. Will medicine need a lot of essay writing? Will it depend on what aspect pf medicine he favours?

[mintthins]

Does his school have much experience of getting people on to medicine, or into Oxford? I'd suggest a chat with them if they do. A serious essay based subject would be really beneficial I'd have thought, even if not expressly stated as essential.

[Nospringflower]

I think he will definitely get an A at Nat 5. English and French are his worst subjects but he got As in his prelims but marks were lower whereas high 80s and 90s for sciences.

Someone said essay writing at uni is harder for those who haven't done higher english.

[WankersHacksandThieves]

My DS dropped English after Nat5, he got an A but not a top A in it. He is very much headed down a technical type field though. He is currently doing Maths, Physics, Engineering Science, Computing Science and Graph Comm at Higher. No one tried to talk him into English at Higher. He was asked if he really wanted to drop Geography but as he hated it with a passion, that was a really straightforward decision :)

He did talk about picking it up in 6th year but I honestly don't see the point, it's been suggested that if he wants/needs a more written element to his education, it may be better to crash RME instead.

If your son is just doing prelims now at Nat 5. I'd maybe tell him that if he wants to drop English he needs to get an A and see how that goes down.

[Nospringflower]

Thanks everyone. I found it hard to believe that he didn't need Higher English but I do think that if English isn't your thing but you are more than adequate with literacy then it probably doesnt add that much.

My partner is English, studied in England and currently works in England and he was very much saying don't do English if you want to study medicine. I wonder if us doing 5 Highers means there can be more emphasis on doing English?!