What do they need to know before starting secondary school?

[WeAllHaveWings]

ds(11) starts secondary school in August. He is currently in P7 and appears to be doing ok and is happy at school, top group (along with 3/4 of the class so no real differentiation) for maths, reading etc.

He is in a large primary school (~85 pupils in P7), which has a catchment area covering a large deprived area. School as far as we have experienced and heard has a "very good reputation" so we were happy to send him there and he has always had very good reports. On hindsight I think it has an excellent reputation for pastoral care and a mediocre one for learning.

It is one of 4 schools feeding into a large Secondary. As we get closer to ds going to secondary school and meeting parents who have dc in secondary school we are hearing pupils from our school find the move from primary to secondary hard as they are not as prepared as other schools and its knocked their confidence. For example some maths hasn't even been covered.

Now I am really worried. Is there anywhere I can find details of what they should know before starting secondary so I can check ds has done it and if not take step to rectify before he makes the move?

[Groovee]

jean a good difference. I can actually read my son's handwriting now.

[RoseDog]

When my dd started high school in August they were all thrown in the deep end with maths and English assessments so they were all put in class suited to their ability, within 2 weeks they had all been moved into classes which most have stayed in!

The transition was easy for my dd, she had totally outgrown primary school and the change in her is fantastic, her confidence has just grown and grown. She only did the 3 day visit as it wasn't our feeder school she went to, the feeder schools do much more to ease the transition.

[JeanBodel]

A good difference or a bad difference?

[Groovee]

Our high school do a lot of transition during P6 & P7. It gives the children a good knowledge of the school layout and the routines.

Our lot do 3 days at high school in P7 in the June where they go into their classes etc. Have found with both children that they tend to stick in primary groups until about October then they start to mix with others.

Maths etc start out in register classes then around the September weekend they start moving them about. But they tend to take their lead from the children. The only complaint from our primary was the handwriting. Since they brought cursive back in, it's made a huge different.

[Littlemissjt]

For maths I'd say so long as he knows times tables he'll be fine. We only teach multiplying fractions to top set classes in either s2 or s3.

One issue we find with some of our primaries is that the teachers encourage mental maths. This is good but I find pupils can be bad for not showing working, or writing it out then rubbing it out. I don't know why some primaries encourage a "work it out" page at the back of their jotters and they only write the answers at the front. No reason for it other than it being quicker and easier to mark. If a pupil gets things wrong I want to see why! Sorry, but a real pet hate of mine!!

[WeAllHaveWings]

Thanks for all your input, its really helped

The maths revision website looks good and I'll go over it at a high level with ds to see if he's covered the topics. Generally he's good at maths knows his numbers/decimals/times table inside out, but I wouldn't like to see him put in the wrong set because specific work hadn't even been covered.

We are working hard at making him more independent over the last several weeks in preparation for his residential trip. Last weekend he took the public bus to town to the cinema and KFC with friends (picked him up afterwards because it was dark!). Plan is in the next few weeks is he takes the bus to swimming with friends on a regular basis. Also he takes care of himself now packing his own bags for school/swimming/sleepovers etc and is doing well (had to go commando after swimming once, but he learned from it!). Being aware of time and being late/doing things last minute needs sorting out, so encouraging and letting him deal with the consequences of this himself.

[dementedpixie]

They did set for maths and English in dd's school but not until part way through the first term. Think they sat tests to determine which group they were in

[prettybird]

At ds' school, they set Maths after the September weekend, having done some tests and work for the first 6 weeks of S1.

They set English after the October Week as it's a more subjective assessment.

As far as I can make out, those are the only 2 subjects that are set, even in to S4. However, there is a degree of filtering/sorting that goes on just by the combination of subjects that people choose.

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

Our High school doesn't do setting. The only bit has been in S3 where those that were definitely going to be aiming for Nat4 Maths rather than Nat 5 were pulled to make a group. Everyone else is just mixed together for everything.

It's funny how all the schools do things differently.

[ttlshiwwya]

I'd ask (either the primary or the secondary) for details as I know all the feeder primaries for my DCs secondary (South Lanarkshire) had a list of topics to be covered for certain subjects (notably Maths, Science and French) to ensure a more level playing field.

For my DCs, it was most important for Maths as they set for S1 based on a standard maths test performed in primary school. Although the sets were fluid and the first 3 sets cover the same curriculum albeit at different paces.

There were no sets for Science/French until S2 but my DD said it was obvious that some schools were farther ahead than others at the beginning of S1 but it tended to even out by S2.

[dementedma]

Ds went to a secondary out with his catchment too. They had done French in P7 and he was put in a first year who had all done German! The school were very understanding when we contacted them and moved him into a French set. Liaise with eh school as much as possible. They want happy first years, not miserable ones and will appreciate any issues being raised early.

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

Sounds a similar situation to the one when my two went to High School. Mine didn't go to the catchment high but later heard from a parent who's child did that the Maths teacher had said that none of the children from our primary had reached the level (or covered of the appropriate material) in Maths. When I asked my son if they'd said anything about that to him at his school, he said yes they had but he'd already caught up so hadn't bothered to mention it.

I am sure the schools are well used to dealing with a diverse range of abilities as well as children who haven't covered everything they should have.

High schools usually liaise with the primaries in their catchment to continue on particular topics from primary - this is where mine lost out as they had done different topics in their catchment area. Wasn't too much of an issue though and at S4 and S3 currently they are both doing well.

I think the advantage they did have having gone to a more deprived primary was a greater awareness to spot, and ability to deal with, trouble. Their radar in that regard was highly developed but they did the opposite and went to a high school with less disruptive influences than their primary.

[dementedma]

Mine sent to a semi rural high school which has multiple feeders,some only sending one or two children from outlying areas. He was the youngest, only 11.5 and not 12 until the following January and he found it very hard to settle.
Agood secondary will do lots of primary engagement beforehand, school visits etc, and should have a good website you can look at together. Make yourself know to the guidance team beforehand if you have real concerns - they were brilliant with Ds - and see if there is a buddying system in place.
Your dc should have some independence skills: be used to getting public transport, know where and when the buses go from and to, how to use a pre-paid card - many schools use them for lunches etc- not be afraid to ask for help.

[howabout]

I have an S2 and S3 who went to the local primary with the great pastoral rather than the great academic reputation. They were both top 3 or 4 of their own school and cope fine mixing with the other school. I think you would only have a concern if they were bottom to middle of their current cohort.

Confidence is key and also giving them a sense that they are just as good as everyone else. There can be quite a lot of peer pressure not to show up the DCs from the "best" primary.

[MrsJayy]

Yep concentrate more on the resilience side both of mine were different DD was well past 12 when she went was settled by the September weekend dd2was just 11 and struggled but was fine by October

[TheTigerIsOut]

Secondary schools will allocate some time to assess new students' level before they are placed in different ability sets. So I really don't think you need to worry too much about the academic side at this time.

It is working in their confidence and independence that is important at this time. Going into big school is quite a big shock to the system, so I would say that the main focus when it comes to preparation for secondary school should be in helping them to be more mature and feel more confident to face the challenge.

The head teacher of DS' school pointed out, repeatedly, that all children will struggle and certainly have a good cry at home before the October half term. Some will because they find it difficult to keep up with so many classes, groups or different teachers, some because they struggle to keep up with their perfectionism, but all of them will be ok once they have settle down.

[dementedpixie]

And dd hadn't been on a lot of visits they had as she had a placing request so was at more of a disadvantage than the kids from the feeder schools. Just about everyone from her primary went there though as it is closer and easier to get to than the catchment school (there were about 60 children that had placing requests to go there )

[dementedpixie]

Dd's homework has been quite sporadic. Some weeks she has nothing and others she has a few pieces to do. They need to learn to time manage it - dd is of the 'put it off to the last minute' mindset and gers annoyed at being nagged at to do it. She has managed so far but will find it harder as they get more to do.

[MorrisZapp]

Totally what Mrsjay said. In my day we just 'went to school' and the parents let the teachers worry about the small print.

As long as the boy is cool with getting himself around, has a decent friendship group etc I'm sure the teachers can sort out where he should be with his maths.

Will the school be quite far away? Is he going to be getting the bus?

[MrsJayy]

They all just bumble along for a few weeks anyway nobody knows what they are doing mine went to a 6 feeder high school so big intakes your son will have transition days in may\june he will be given work to his ability op he IMO doesn't need to do anything

[WeAllHaveWings]

He has always been OK with maths as he enjoys it, knows time, times tables, shapes, angles etc he has been shown, OK with division/multiplying concepts but hurries to finish first and makes mistakes. He hasn't mentioned bar charts so will ask about that. An example I was given was multiplying fractions?

Homework will be a shock as he has had absolutely no homework in P7 as his teacher doesn't agree with it.

We are working hard on being responsible for your own stuff.

I'll also check out that website which sounds good.

[TheTigerIsOut]

I really think that there are only a few things they need to learn:

• that the will need to spend more time working in homeworks
  
• that they feel confident traveling to and back from school on their own
  
• that they should take care of their belongings because nobody else will
  

What you need to learn:

• that contact with teachers will be no longer so easily accessible

[ouryve]

That their belongings won't magically follow them from room to room!