feel so low

[fraggletits]

I just don't know what to do anymore.

DH and me just cannot stand each other. Everything I do is wrong (from the food I cook to the way I organise myself to the clothes I have for the kids to the way I go about running the house) and everything I say is wrong.

He says that I lie and twist and turn and that talking to me is like talking to a politician - but I feel that he has made me extremely defensive.

He says I'm negative, a failure with no ambition and that I'm dragging us down as a family. He wishes he'd never married me - he just fancied me sexually when we met but he now realises it was no basis to marry somebody and have children with them and that next time he would go for somebody with brains.

I read some peoples posts here and think oh he's not bad in other ways - for instance he wants me to have a social life and a career - he loves it if I go out - he's not jealous - he's not into porn or anything sleazy - he would never cheat on me and he's not an alcoholic or into drugs

He is under a lot of pressure being self employed and we've been in a financial nightmare for a long time.

FWIW - I am disorganised. I can be a bit messy. I can be defensive. I can bury my head over things sometimes, I am a bit depressed and down at the moment. I've lost my identity - I'm a SAHM with no money.

But I'm a good person. I'm laid back and kind and caring and funny. I love my kids and feel blessed to have them.

Next year he is going to start working away 4 days a week and I cannot wait. It's just at the moment I don't know if my sanity can take it until then but unfortunately I have no other option but to sit it out

[NanaNina]

Hi Fraggle - I have just been reading some of a very long thread "Those who have left emotional abusive r/ships come and tell me how you did it" on the R/ship section here. It is the "story" of a woman in a very similar situation to you. It takes you through all her anxieties, scares, worries etc both emotional and practical and her finally leaving with her young son. She had no money and no job but managed it. I was in tears at the end. It might help you to have a look - I skipped a lot of it because it was so long but it was like reading a book and I was clicking away hoping and hoping that she got away and she did.

I think she started posting in Sept and finally moved last weekend I think - she have masses of support and info from MNs who had already taken the same path and I don't think she could have done it without them.

I'm sure it will inspire you!

[citronella]

Le Queen that's exactly what I mean.

Another big fear is will you be able to cope on your own and the "oh no I'm going to ruin my dc's childhood because they will have only one parent...single mums... broken homes... psychologically ruined kids... blah...blah" argument. For me this was a non-starter. My mum raised me (to top it all I was a mixed race baby) alone in the 60s and 70s when it really was an issue. She worked full time and I grew up grounded (i think) and happy.

I never thought it would be easy but, if she could do it then I could.

And so can you Fraggle.

[fraggletits]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write all of that down for me Citronella - that's fantastic advice - really really helpful. (and scary) but like you say, you are one of hundreds of brave strong women here on mumsnet who decided enough is enough and took a leap of faith to a better life. Now that I am on that same precipice, I am in awe of women like you, because even thinking about it brings up all sorts of unsettling fears and emotions.

Thank you again Nana - I will have a look at the resolution website for further help.

[NanaNina]

Brilliant post Citronella which I am sure fraggles will find really helpful. Just to add to fraggles, you could google www.resolution.org.uk for good info on legal services.

[citronella]

"There is no way on earth he would be a weekend dad. His plan was always not to be working in 3 years so having them half the week would not be a problem for him. My fear though is he would turn really spiteful and fight me for custody if we were to split. I remember him threatening that once ages and ages ago in an argument - him saying he would fight me all the way -"

Well my Xh swore blind that he would want 50/50 custody, threatened that he would have me bankrupted, that the court would easily give him sole custody etc etc. This was the sort of talk that would scare me and in fact stopped me filing for divorce a whole year earlier. When it came to it though it was all talk. I now have sole residency. You just have to have the strength in your own convictions and trust your own instincts.

[citronella]

Hi fraggletits!

It has taken me a few days to read your thread and even then I haven't finished it yet.
I am so sorry that you are in this unhappy situation but want to tell you that you can change it. I am one of the hundreds on here that someone mentioned earlier who got out and will never look back. It's like having a massive boulder lifted off your chest. Now, you hold on to that thought.
Of course getting out is not easy. It takes courage, a lot of patience (my process has taken 2 years from the moment I made up my mind) and yes a certain amount of money. None of those things are barriers. How much money you will need depends on your situation.
These would be my steps:

1. Make the decision to leave (harder than you think). You need to look back on your life together and then imagine yourself in 20 years time, ask yourself if that's the situation you want to be in.
   
   
2. Once you have decided once and for all you will already feel better, empowered and in control. You know something and he doesn't. And you can make it happen.
   
   3)Hatch a plan. You will need outside help and advice for this. A lot will depend on your financial situation and the age of your dc. You must try to make the changes the least disruptive for your kids, so that means being near the same school, nursery or family members. Start by gathering info. Get an appointment at the Citizens Advice Bureau. I did they were really helpful and practical. I have them to thank for helping me find away to be in control of a crippling amount of debt. Research your local authority website with regard to housing, schools etc etc.
   
   
3. Contact a family law solicitor and get proper legal advice.This is very important because usually the other party (your H) will try and wear you down with legalese and what your rights are and what his rights are. 95% of it will be bullshit to talk you out of your decision because they will hate not being in control anymore. You must block it all out. This will be one of the hardest parts of getting out. Some solicitors will give an hour's free advice on legal aid. The divorce process itself is very straightforward and can be very quick.
   
   5)Decide how you are going leave after you have got all info above. Will you get housed? Can you stay with your family as an interim measure. This will decide when you will leave (it took me 7 months from when I had initially made the decision)
   
   
4. Squirrel away things you will need when you first move out (can you keep them at your mum's or a loyal friend's?)
   
   7)Rebuild your self esteem. Go to your GP and get on a list for counselling. You will be able to talk to someone just about what you want to talk about. I think it's important that you do this with an outsider as well as with your own family and friends.
   
   8)Try to limit your drinking. You really need to stay focused and strong for your plan to come to fruition and to be the rock for your children.
   
   Most of all take small steps at a time. You are thinking of your and your children's future and it really will be better.
   Keep telling us how you get on. I found great inspiration and support on here.

[fraggletits]

Thanks lequeen - that made for hard, but nonetheless mostly true reading. You're right on a lot of things and you are clearly a much more confident, self assured woman than I am.

I'm going to start looking into the legalities of things now I think. I know nothing about separation rights, maintenance, divorce.

[fraggletits]

Thanks Dittany. I might as suggested before try and order it through my library.

I do have children Nana - they are 4 and 2

When he's around he is a great Dad. If he has a day off at the weekend he has no problem taking them off for the day somewhere to give me a break - he loves it. He's loads of fun with them and they absolutely adore him and he adores them. He's very clever and witty and relates to kids very well, making up brilliant games and what have you. He's not often strict with our 4yr old but he can get a bit strict about her tidying up after herself in her bedroom or her having too many sweets.

If we were to get divorced I know we would have to split the kids 50/50. There is no way on earth he would be a weekend dad. His plan was always not to be working in 3 years so having them half the week would not be a problem for him. My fear though is he would turn really spiteful and fight me for custody if we were to split. I remember him threatening that once ages and ages ago in an argument - him saying he would fight me all the way - I don't think a court would give him full custody surely. I haven't looked into legalities of divorce/separation yet.

The thought of even suggesting separating let alone doing it absolutely terrifies me - we are a well established couple and I can imagine his response being 'don't be so silly' or 'that's a real loser thing to suggest' and me going 'oh okay then' and backing down straightaway.

[NanaNina]

Hi Fraggle - glad you found my post helpful. Not entirely clear what you mean about the "wondering whether H is going to make a success of our lives" hanging over us, maybe related to the success or otherwise of the business? You could chuck the hessian shirts away or maybe change them for soft silky ones IYSWIM!

It's interesting what you say about the abuse having "no reason" and is always motivated by some "failure" on your part. This sounds to me as again classic projection. It doesn't sound like the business is going well, so rather than your H having to face that and his responsibility in it, it is much less painful for him to get into "blaming mode" in your direction - e.g. "IF only YOU would do/not do something" then I could make a success of the business." My bet would be that if the kitchen cupboards were pristine, he would find something else to blame you for to cover up his own failings and feelings of self doubt, failure etc.

You say the abuse was there before the self employment which really goes to show that it really hasn't got that much to do with the current situation. It has to do with his own feelings of inadequacy and lack of self worth. I am not surprised that he had an aggressive and controlling father as this is usually the case with men like this- unfortunately behaviour gets learned in childhood and the hurt and pain of being controlled and unfairly criticised as a child leaves it's mark and these men then project all that pain on their partner. Again this isn't usually done at a conscious level, but it happens nonethless. It can be modified and dealt with but it needs the person to be motivated to change and accept that what happened in childhood has contributed to the way they are behaving in a r/ship. BUT that's all well and good but you have to deal with the "here and now" don't you and that sounds really difficult.

I am assuming you have children - how old are they - how are they being affected and what sort of father is he? Please don't feel you have to answer - wasjust wondering.

Once your mindset changes as in "this is NOT my fault/he is projecting his own inadeqaucies onto me" etc you might continue to see things differently and start to make changes.

Is there any way that you can alleviate some of the problems (for you both) - would it be so terrible to call time on the business for example even if it means you have to rely on state benefits. Sorry if this sounds crazy but sometimes desparate situations require desparate remedies.

[fraggletits]

sorry I just wanted to add that I could be the worlds most amazingly organised housewife, forseeing every potential mishap and problem and having a solution already in place to prevent any annoyances. Nothing would ever get lost - life would be problem free........but I would be a completely different person to who I am now. I don't think I'd have the same sense of humour, in fact I don't think I'd have a sense of humour at all. I would live only for cleaning and organising and I would be a really unattractive person I think.

I don't think he has a clue what he's on about unfortunately. I'm not a slovenly loser at all, a little disorganised yes, but in need of Kim and Aggy's help - no!

[fraggletits]

Thank you Nana! That is such an insightful and helpful post and I really appreciate you taking the time to write all of that to me.

From your obvious wisdom you have described us so well.

H is miserable and frustrated and trapped in the hell of self employment. There is an end in sight of selling the business but that is not going to be for another 3 years at the moment. We are living in a horrible rented flat with no money and he is projecting his failings and his guilt onto me.

His father was very aggressive and critical as a parent to H.

I like the gardening book story but the thing with us is that we have 'whether H is going to make a success of our lives or not' hanging over our heads every single minute of the day. We are all wearing hession shirts and flogging ourselves daily because of this.

None of the abuse is for 'no reason' in his mind - it all has the same message behind it which is 'must do better'. Every single one of my actions has a consequence (or seems to have a consequence) which can have serious knock on effects, such as me not keeping the kitchen cupboards organised means h cannot think properly when in there ever at the weekend, which then slows him down work wise which then makes him fall behind at work.

If he pulls me up on this in his charming manner, we fall out terribly, we assume our persecutor/victim roles and this misery we are all living in slows him down at work and makes him fall behind. It's a never ending cycle.

I supported H starting his own business but I never signed up to this.......although, the abuse was there before the self employment, it was just about different frustrations he had of me back then, so there you go!

[NanaNina]

Fraggle - how about calling yourself "lovelyfraggle!" SO glad to hear that things are starting to change "in your head" so to speak, as you talk of a new awareness in relation to your H. I think this is really important and could be the first step in taking action towards a better life. You have been emotionally abused for a long time and it will take time for you to see things differently. Men like this are scarey to live with and I imagine you are afraid of him, which is unsurprising. I lived in a r/ship like this once, many years ago when I was a young mother. When we are scared it paralyses us to do anything about it.

Like you I looked for signs as to his mood etc and tried to make everything right. The thing is though as you will know only too well is that you can never make things rights because he will always find something to start a fight about.

I noticed you said that you had started to change in that you were not always aware of his mood etc. Thing is I think r/ships are a bit like a script for a play, with each playing their "part" and the other knowing the other's part in the "play" - this may not be a conscious thing, but at a sub-conscious level your H will know that you are watching his mood and always trying to keep things on an even keel and this allows him to continue to play his part in the "play". This goes on in all r/ships and can be harmless but in an emotionally abusive one, it is harmful and perpetuates the dynamic if you see what I mean.

SO you could try changing the script. I have come to believe that A can only change B' behaviour by A changing their behaviour. You could try this out in small ways. Whatever it is you do when rows start, (you will know only too well) you could try to change - do something different (it doesn't really matter what you do, the thing is it has to be something completely different) so that your H will notice. Have to warn you it might make him more angry/frustrated because he will be used to you doing what you always do and will be confused.

To give an example I worked with a woman in a similar situation and she always used to cry and get really upset when her H turned on her. I suggested she just open her garderning book that she loved looking at and just ignore him and look as though she was reading it (she had a little post it note in the book saying "I must ignore him") and let him shout and rant. She tried it and said he was totally confused and kept saying "why aren't you crying".............etc etc. It's just a way of changing the dynamic though it's not a solution of course.

The other thing is we each have a favourite role in a r/ship and your H's is persecutor and yours is victim I suspect. Persecutors can only persecute because there is a victim willing to let him. Once the victim begins to stand up for herself this has to change the persecutor's role BUT it might make him more persecutory as he will not give up his role easily, so it is al a bit fraught.

I suspect underneath things your H feels a failure, insecure and indeed feels about himself all the things he is projecting onto you because this is what men like this do, though again maybe not at a conscious level. It allows them to "escape" the pain of facing what they feel about themselves. So he too is living a miserable life and change needs to come, for both of you.

What do you know about his past - did he have a controlling/bullying/overly critical parent? This is often at the root of this kind of behaviour.

Sorry for long post - I get a bit carried away but hope your new awareness continues and sending you strength through the keyboard!

[fraggletits]

one thing I get from reading all these links is that it is hard to see the situation you are in when you are in it.

That cycle of abuse makes for uncomfortable reading. The 'setting you up' especially. I can't imagine him fantasizing about what I've done wrong and when he'll next have a go at me.......but then, one of my (many) complaints against him over the years has been that it feels like he throws things back in my face -

an example would be I suggest going on some sort of day out on a Sunday, I'm not fussed if he comes along or not but he agrees to come along (but I have no idea it is begrudgingly as he has work to do or doesn't feel like it) and then when we get there he becomes moody and sullen and when I question him about this he lays into me, humiliating me, that I've forced him to be there at a cost to him and then not talking to me for a week after. That to me is such a familiar behaviour. I have had such a go at him over the years about this. Just to tell me straight if he doesn't want to do anything, don't let me walk 'blindly into the abuse' in other words.

Yep - very worrying indeed and something I didn't really get until now so thanks very much again for posting up that link.

[fraggletits]

one thing I get from reading all these links is that it is hard to see the situation you are in when you are in it.

That cycle of abuse makes for uncomfortable reading. The 'setting you up' especially. I can't imagine him fantasizing about what I've done wrong and when he'll next have a go at me.......but then, one of my (many) complaints against him over the years has been that it feels like he throws things back in my face -

an example would be I suggest going on some sort of day out on a Sunday, I'm not fussed if he comes along or not but he agrees to come along (but I have no idea it is begrudgingly as he has work to do or doesn't feel like it) and then when we get there he becomes moody and sullen and when I question him about this he lays into me, humiliating me, that I've forced him to be there at a cost to him and then not talking to me for a week after. That to me is such a familiar behaviour. I have had such a go at him over the years about this. Just to tell me straight if he doesn't want to do anything, don't let me walk 'blindly into the abuse' in other words.

Yep - very worrying indeed and something I didn't really get until now so thanks very much again for posting up that link.

[NicknameTaken]

I agree with dittany, this is not normal or acceptable behaviour by him.

You say: "What really hurts is that we could go on to have a good 2 weeks now of getting on well, even a month and then he can just turn and become vile about something not to his liking...."

This is a pretty classic example of the cycle of abuse. Have a look at this link: helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm

You do have an option other than to wait it out till next year. You don't need money in the bank to go. This is not a good way to live.

[fraggletits]

Thank you so much Nickname and Dittany for the links. I have been doing what reading I can throughout the day and like you Nickname I can relate to an awful lot but then there's stuff there that doesn't relate as well. Does not mean it's therefore not abuse.

I remember early on in our relationship noticing that if we had an argument - dh would very quickly move on from the topic we were arguing about and literally character assassinate me, completely rip me apart and in doing so remove all my rights and any reason for me to have any defence (usually by dragging trivial mistakes of mine up from the past to validate my uselessness). Each and every time. It's certainly a skilled way of arguing as it leaves your opponent completely drained and confused.

We're talking in a more civilised fashion this evening but at one point last night he was punching his head and screaming at me saying I drive him insane. I've been through this so many times now that I know I'm through the worst and his mood is lightening now and we'll probably have a week or 2 of getting on really well and then it will all fall apart again over some other mistake of mine or whatever.

I feel different now though - I'm so tired of feeling constantly aware of him all the time, always watching him to see if he changes from happy to unhappy about something, always trying to make him happy in the home, never knowing what the mood will be when the key goes in the door. What really hurts is that we could go on to have a good 2 weeks now of getting on well, even a month and then he can just turn and become vile about something not to his liking.... and that's always been the hardest for me as I'm so consistent in my moods and hate arguing.

Like I say I feel differently this time, like I'm not craving to be friends again after a rough patch, like I have a new awareness and sort of see things through different eyes.

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to post links and give advice. I really appreciate it and posting here is really helping. And Nana - yes I think I will be namechanging at some point soon

[TimeForMe]

Dittany is right when she says you getting a job, joining clubs etc is not the issue. Yes, these things will give you confidence and you may feel more able to cope with your situation but these things won't change your H. You may even find that he becomes more abusive and controlling when you start to get a life outside the home.

Having said that I do think it's great that you are thinking of taking steps in which you can increase your self esteem

Keep posting!

[NicknameTaken]

The Lundy Bancroft book can be downloaded here: pdfdatabase.com/download_file_i.php?file=14124606&desc=why+does+he+do+that+.pdf
(although be careful if your H has access to your computer).

If you can't/don't want to download, at least have a look at the checklist here:
www.hipmama.com/node/17513
Remember, he doesn't have to tick all these boxes to be an abuser. My ex was supportive with my work and not jealous of me going out, but he was still abusive in other ways.