Is this much confidence misplaced?

[OrmIrian]

Dh and I have been together forever. Married 17yrs this October. Lived together 6 yrs before that. We met when we were very young and have been together ever since, apart from a break when I was at university.

I have a supreme confidence in my marriage. I don?t mean it doesn't go wrong from time to time and I do feel pissed off with DH at times, but fundamentally it's OK. And I have this overwhelming belief that if the marriage ends it will be because I end it. It's in my hands. I am never jealous of DH. It has never occurred to me to be so. I don't see the need to pander to him to keep him on side - if I do things to please him it's because I want to make him happy, not because I am afraid he will leave me or be unfaithful. That doesn't mean I don't love him, it just means that I don't ever imagine he will break the rules. And if he did I can't quite shake the feeling that I'd manage perfectly well without him. All this comes from the deep down fact that I think he is bloody lucky to have me. Which sounds supremely arrogant but it's true. There isn't anyone who knew DH years ago who wouldn't agree that without me he was going down the pan - bad childhood, no future, no plans.

I have never questioned this feeling of mine but having seen other marriages break down, some of which were marriages that everyone assumed were carved in stone, I do wonder now whether I have my head in the clouds. That I shouldn't be so sure of myself. And isn't it natural to have some doubts or concerns - I think that maybe I don't have enough of an emotional investment in the marriage. I don't envy people who go through the mill emotionally in their relationships but surely be so steady and clear-eyed isn't good.

[WhenwillIfeelnormal]

That's so honest of you OrmIrian and I'm glad and relieved you have seen what I am saying. I've also been thinking on your behalf of what else could have got us to this high point in our marriage.

Have you ever had a true, heart-to-heart chat with him about this? I think I expected my DH to see the link between the laziness, selfishness, weight gain and general grubbiness and my lack of desire and respect. But he was complacent too, you see and his usual way of dealing with my pleas for change was to promise he would do something about it, if only to end what for him were "difficult conversations". We reminisce now that my DH was heavily into "sticking plaster" remedies; he's a "fixer" you see. He'd promise to blitz the house before I came in from work - and this would last for maybe a week if I was lucky. Several times in our years together I told him I'd had enough, but he never really took it seriously.

He scratches his head in amazement now that he expected me to love, desire and respect him when he was doing all this and he does see the huge unfairness that he had an affair and that his wrongdoing led to these wonderful changes. But it also made him realise that the affair wasn't the only thing that I had to forgive and that if he wanted to keep me, he'd have to make some really drastic changes.

This meant I had to be searingly honest with him - even telling him that I just hadn't fancied him. "And why on earth would you have done?" was his reply.

If you don't think your husband would respond well to this (or take it seriously) it might be worth at least telling him that you have concerns. Going to couples counselling shouldn't just be about crisis management, it should perhaps be viewed more as marriage insurance - a kind of health check, if you like. Would that be possible for you both?

Real honesty between couples is such a turn-on, too. I do think for me, good sex follows on from good communication and the truth was, my DH and I obviously didn't communicate very well about our needs. It might be painful to hear and share some of these things, but if you can avert a crisis like mine and regain the passion in your marriage, it would be worth it, wouldn't it?

[OrmIrian]

whenwill - thankyou so much for that. It sounds as if things are much better afterwards. I totally see what you are saying - I need to value DH and my marriage more - but it's hard to do that. I try and be kind and loving, I tell him that I love him often, I compliment him on how he looks etc, I do this because I know it will make him happy. But I don't feel passionate or have huge desire for him. I don't know how I can change that, or fake it Perhaps I need to think about that.

[WhenwillIfeelnormal]

Thanks OrmIrian - the answer to your question is quite complex. I honestly don't think I've ever been happier with my marriage and my DH. It is so strange to be able to say that having had the year I've had, but it's the truth. I don't worry that he will have an affair again either, but the crucial difference I suppose is that I no longer take him, or our marriage, for granted.

And I've also realised that it's not just him that would be deprived if we returned to a routine sex life - it would be me. I am thankful that there have been many unexpected gifts resulting from the horror of the past year and one of them is a passionate, fulfilling sex life. We also had sex fairly regularly pre-affair, but I've got to say it had become pretty mechanical and passionless, which was both our faults. It's the quality of sex - and the quantity - that has improved.

Pre-affair, my husband was very lazy, quite selfish, took no interest in his appearance and hated talking about our relationship. Unsurprisingly perhaps - and especially because I'm a talker and repeatedly tried to resolve these grievances to no avail - I stopped respecting him, valuing him and desiring him. In this sense, I recognise that I was as vulnerable as he was to an affair, except I think in my case, the DCs would have been the biggest barrier to that.

I did however recognise how kind he was and despite all his faults, loved him very much. But I always thought he loved me more - and so did he. He now tells me he always felt he was "punching above his weight" with me - and a few times over the past 25 years, a couple of very perceptive friends pulled me up about how wonderful DH was and they weren't sure I realised what a gem I had in him.

Pre-affair, I would have said till the cows came home that we had a happy marriage. But I did used to acknowledge the lack of passion I felt and regretted that I didn't really fancy him any more. I'm a very sexual person and I know I yearned for that side of my life to return.

The affair was the catalyst for so many things. He is now so emotionally open to me, whereas he was once closed. He is no longer lazy or selfish whatsoever - and the biggest thing is that we have realised that we both love each other so much.

I often dread to think what might have happened if he had fallen in love with OW, or if the sex had been great. He didn't - and it wasn't. I can accept however that OW was fulfilling in him a need that I wasn't - she was repeatedly telling him how gorgeous he was, how wonderful he was and it also seems she deferred to his every point of view. For a short time, this was pretty intoxicating stuff, but fortunately, my DH never wanted a stepford wife and the lack of intellectual challenge (she was a bit dim) meant that he could never fall in love with someone who was that stupid.

I once read that what men need most in a marriage is respect and desire and I thought then "how old-fashioned". But I do think there's some truth in this and (for what we both think are justificable reasons) I neither desired nor respected my husband as much as he needed me to. Of course, the appropriate thing would have been for him to have told me all this - but being the sort of emotionally retarded man he was then, that was extremely unlikely!

I wish with all my heart that it hadn't taken an affair to learn all this - and to have the sort of marriage I have now, but I also wonder what other catalyst we could have had to bring about the changes we have made.

Yes, I'm happy in my marriage - far happier than I was pre-affair in fact. Happy overall? We are only a year on from all this turmoil and the pain is still very much there, but I'm getting there.

We have both said that we will never again put up with an average marriage or an average sex life. We talk now all the time and I genuinely think we have true intimacy.

I don't (and never did) expect to have all my needs fulfilled by him and I'm a great friend-maker and keeper. Perhaps that was why I wasn't tempted by an affair. My husband, on the other hand, has never been one share emotions with anyone, let alone friends. So my needs were being met more than his at the time of his affair - and this is also something I've realised.

You are incredibly wise to question your marriage and I admire you for it. I also think you are very receptive to others' views and so I hope you will find this helpful. I also wanted to reassure you that I am as far from looking over my shoulder as I could be - without being complacent either.

[OrmIrian]

And if you read plasticbag's thread about her DH and his his ability to ignore housework you will see my posts and realise that DH takes me for granted too It's not one way traffic.

[OrmIrian]

pretty - just read your thread. So sorry .

[OrmIrian]

Thanks pretty and whenwill. Very interesting that you both felt the same as me and I am really sorry that things went wrong. And yes whenwill, it's me that isn't that interested in sex much of the time. But we do have sex once or twice a week so he isn't deprived. As I said earlier I do things for him because I want to not because I feel I have to otherwise he'll do the off! I could also complain about how he isn't motivated to do housework or take responsibility for anything . IME most couples are unequal in different ways.

But I can't help feeling that if I can't be confident in my marriage I might as well not be married. It is meant to be a bedrock thing that I can rely on build the rest of my life on. Same for DH. I refuse to second-guess what he might do.

And if he messed me around I think I wouldn't want him with me anymore. ATM that is how I feel anyway but I have taken on board what you both said.
Just out of interest whenwill, are you happy now? Is it awful to have to worry that if your DH doesn't feel fulfilled he can just have an affair? And that is somehow your fault? I don't think I could live like that

[WhenwillIfeelnormal]

Precisely. Ormirian I think you should trust that instinct that led you to post. Also, if I remember rightly, haven't you said before that one or both of you (cannot remember, sorry) isn't particularly motivated by sex?

I could also have written your post just over a year ago. I thought my DH loved me more than I loved him and was also convinced that if it all went tits up, I would cope better than him. I had far more in my life in terms of friends, close family than him and I was utterly complacent that he would never, ever cheat.

Then I discovered that he had cheated and my whole smug world fell apart. I now know that NO-ONE knows how they would truly feel if the worst happened. In my case, it made me realise how much I need this man and how much I love him. I know I would cope without him and I know that I would be okay, but I also know now how impoverished my life would be without him in it.

I also realise fully now how much a glue a good sex life is and would never, ever settle for anything less.

You're right to be concerned about your complacency. I wish I hadn't been so complacent and so bloody smug. And no, I am not saying I was at fault for his affair, but I do recognise that my H hadn't felt desired, valued or respected for a long time and all this, combined with a whole host of other issues beyond my control, provided the perfect breeding ground for an affair.

Fortunately for us, it was a huge wake-up call and my DH didn't fall in love.

Complacency in a marriage should have a health warning and is certainly something I will counsel my children about in their relationships.

[prettyinpink00]

OMG - Have only read the OP but I am in shock. 4 weeks ago I could have written this post. Word for word.

Then I discovered DH had been messing me about (see my post of about 5 mins ago).

Don't know what to say. I was always the girl declaring "my DH adores me he would never cheat on me".

Eye opening.

[OrmIrian]

"Just as your DH cannot and should not be everything to you. "

That is what I needed to hear I think. Permission not to be having a passionate affair with the only sexual partner I plan to have. I don't want to feel inadequate for treating DH like a normal person, he isn't the focus of my life or my soul mate.

Thankyou everyone. This has cleared things up a bit for me.

[HappyWoman]

I think you are thinking too much and looking for answers that may not be there. But I too can relate to that.

The only thing that 'flags' up for me in your post is that you say your h had childhood problems that he feels he has dealt with, but you are not so sure. As if you feel he has not done enough to get past it.
Again i can relate to that - i think i used to 'mother' my h and be the one to sort everything out - and again i suppose i too was of the opinion that he was lucky to have me help him get to where he was.......

We did have the massive breakdown following his affair. All the usual reasons given.

It has made me see things in a very different way now and i would never take my relationships (marriage and friendships) for granted anymore - but i also know i have to be responsible for my own happiness and that i will be ok if i ever have to be alone again.

But also i do sometimes wonder what it would be like to follow that passionate route sometimes and not be sensible always.

I think it comes from knowing the right thing to do but wanting to feel what it feels like to not always be sensible. iyswim.

The best thing is to find something each day that makes you feel great about the life you are living.

[BecauseImWorthIt]

Oh, and I know that I would manage better on my own than DH would. But I don't really want to be on my own. (OK, there are days when I'd love it ...)

[BlingLoving]

You sound imminently sensible (in a good way ) to me. Your marriag shouldn't make you happy in itself - it really should be a foundation for other things in your life. Just as your DH cannot and should not be everything to you.

Yes, of course that means over time that you lose some of the high excitement and passion, but I like to focus on the things I get in exchange - love, humour, comfort, support, day to day enjoyment of things that are important to me and to us, family etc etc etc.

I am happy. I know that my marriage plays a huge role in that. Not because without it I can't be, but because it gives me the stability, extra confidence, security etc to enjoy other things in my life. And keeps me from being lonely.

[BecauseImWorthIt]

We will have been married for 19 years this year, and together for 4 before that - and in many ways, Orm, I could have written the same OP.

I think, inevitably, long relationships can seem boring and predictable. The longing and lusting is a distant memory! Inevitably it can make you envious when you see others in new relationships, where it's at that terribly exciting phase.

About 5 years or so ago we went through a rough patch. Nothing specific, just rubbing each other up the wrong way, having the odd horrible argument (we both normally hate and avoid rows!). I realised I'd just got into the habit of being cross with DH! So I decided to start a new habit of being happy to see him. Sounds a bit corny, but it really did the trick.

Stable, day-to-day can be boring - it is also, though, hugely important to our own self esteem and our happiness. And especially to the happiness of our children.

This is a really interesting thread, and I don't think you're being self-indulgent at all!

[morningpaper]

Reading your OP you sound confident and I don't think that's a BAD thing. I worry more about people who are convinced that they would fall to pieces if their partners left them...

[morningpaper]

Do you feel you are MISSING the passion?

Are you having a mid-life crisis and want to run off with the gardener's boy or something like that?

[OrmIrian]

God this is self-indulgent bilge isn't it. Sorry.

[OrmIrian]

Contented most of the time. Happy, yes very happy sometimes but it isn't my marriage that makes me so usually. Life quite often makes me happy. My marriage provides the stability to let the happiness happen.

[OrmIrian]

Both mp. I tend to be sensible. And so is our marriage.

[HerHonesty]

are you happy?

[OrmIrian]

bling - yes, maybe. The feeling I have is that emotionally we are stagnant for want of a nicer word. And it is a good thing in many many ways for the obvious reasons. But is it all good?

[morningpaper]

passionate instability... in YOURSELF, or in your marriage?

[OrmIrian]

counting - I missed that about your DH's affair. So sorry I guess you learned the hard way how bad that feels. You see that makes me question my complacency.

[BlingLoving]

So really, you're not questioning your relationship's stability but whether that's what you want?

[countingto10]

At least you are aware of it and that it could possibly be a problem. Knowledge is good - fortunately both me and DH are now aware of everything and that we are both responsible for our marriage and ourselves. I am hoping that I can look back in another 15 yrs (been together nearly 11 yrs) and be grateful for what has been going on in the last 6 months of my life (even though it has been a very traumatic experience for the whole family) as it has made us both make changes for the better

[BlingLoving]

I do wonder if I have a weird view on life and if it's all going to come crashing down on me in due course. My parents are still married. Most of my close friends parents are still married. I do know divorced people - DH's parents are divorced and my sister has been married and divorced (she was very young) but is happily remarried to a wonderful man.

Similarly, of my friends, most of those in relationships look pretty stable and good. I have one friend who's marriage I have serious doubts about and I'm sure over the next 20 years there will be a few surprises along the way.

But overall, the people I have spent my life with seem to have fairly stable relationships. Doesn't mean they're easy. Just that they're stable.

I don't think therefore that the default setting is that things go horribly wrong.